# Full Metal Jacket Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 15, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798 "2010-07-15T17:00:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/61 "2010-07-18T23:17:17Z")
**Bear \_Nenno** : I am almost certain that OSUT was not in existence in my particular time/place of military and I can’t see where it would have occurred, either. After Basic there was about 6 months of AIT school for me, then permanent party at Knox Hall/Ft Sill. Never left Sill in my three years of duty. I had 34L/Y MOS’s (BCS/Tacfire computers) and also Firefinder repair (forget the MOS of that one), all in Knox Hall. I never heard the term OSUT nor knew anyone involved with such. We never had any female-education stuff but AIT was co-ed, so to speak. Almost like typical school but wearing BDU’s and if you lived off-post there was no duty whatsoever if you did not fuck up any. Basic was my last day of living on-post, ever. 🙂 Artillery had/has many, many MOS’s, including Forward Obser and the most basic Artillery was 13B, aka ‘gun-bunny’ (as opposed to Infantry 11B aka Bush Beaters). I have no idea about training and/or how the stuff is broken down nowadays, but there are likely different MOS’s for the different guns (?). All the various MOS’s that were ‘technical’ lived in same barracks/apartments, and only once did we have to assemble/reassemble rifle for proficiency, iirc. No shooting/rifle stuff at all in AIT. After my schools, I only touched a rifle every few months at most, and usually just for the heck of it. We had LOTS of free time. My ‘office’ took care of the computers/radars that the civilians (Norden/Litton/etc) used to test their software updates, and we also sent out the software to whoever needed it. If we wanted to shoot a rifle, we could get one for a day from various armories, we had to call around as technically I was attached to Ft Monmouth (Signals). Minimal paperwork and absolute counting of rounds issued/brass returned. I will try and find out about the A/C on cattle-trucks (could’ve been present) and also if weapons are ‘issued’ the same way nowadays and will get back with you as soon as I can. Sorry for the slight hijacking from FMJ topic, folks. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/62 "2010-07-19T12:39:49Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The concept, I think, is that IDF troops are expected to start thinking like soldiers from day one. And part of being a soldier is making sure your magazines are always full. > > Plus, in gave the sergeants the chance to shout “ready for battle in five minutes!”, after which we were expected to be lined up by our tents with our vests and helmets on, our magazines and canteens full and our weapons spotless. It’s a good drill. LUXURY ! You guys had it easy, we routinely had to have a bayonet between our teeth 24/7 as well as carrying a pinless grenade in our left hands at all times. We weren’t allowed to wear socks and we were regulary inspected to see that we had the regulation amount of ground glass in our boots. Discipline was harsh, execution for a first offence of looking at a non com “in a funny way”… and afterwards our zombie bodies had to make a forced march of one hundred and twenty miles, in full battle order, carrying a two hundred and eighty pound Bergan, underwater, WHILE THEY SHOWED US LIVE FOOTAGE OF THEM SHAGGING OUR WIVES AND GIRLFRIENDS ! And we were the lucky ones. You young’uns don’t know you’re born. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/63 "2010-07-19T12:54:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Smuggle? The recruits routinely sleep with their rifles close at hand. The “This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine” scene depicts exactly that. It’s not odd at all for Leonard to have his rifle in the barracks. It’s possibly unlikely that he might have live rounds, but I can imagine him hiding a few from the platoon’s frequent visits to the ranges. > > Speaking of which, in one scene Hartman praises Leonard’s shooting, but actor D’Onofrio’s lack of control of his rifle kinda undercuts that. Several of the recruits I was with in Basic (1973) had live rounds they took from the range as souvenirs. It isn’t hard to get a couple of rounds, you just don’t fire everytime and put one in your pocket. The Brass is weighed at the end of training to determine if there is enough left from the issue amount, it is plus or minus a few ounces. If you were caught with one the punishment would be relatively severe to set an example. However if you were in the barracks you did not have a weapon, they were kept locked up in the armory. But if you were on bivouac you would probalby have your weapon with you. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/64 "2010-07-19T13:44:46Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > LUXURY ! > > You guys had it easy, we routinely had to have a bayonet between our teeth 24/7 as well as carrying a pinless grenade in our left hands at all times. > > We weren’t allowed to wear socks and we were regulary inspected to see that we had the regulation amount of ground glass in our boots. > > Discipline was harsh, execution for a first offence of looking at a non com “in a funny way”… > > and afterwards our zombie bodies had to make a forced march of one hundred and twenty miles, in full battle order, carrying a two hundred and eighty pound Bergan, underwater, WHILE THEY SHOWED US LIVE FOOTAGE OF THEM SHAGGING OUR WIVES AND GIRLFRIENDS ! > > And we were the lucky ones. > > You young’uns don’t know you’re born. I wasn’t trying to sound all Yorkshireman, you know; I doubt what I did was any tougher than what American or British infantrymen went through. Just different. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/65 "2010-07-19T13:57:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I wasn’t trying to sound all Yorkshireman, you know; I doubt what I did was any tougher than what American or British infantrymen went through. Just different. No I was only joking, I have the highest respect for the I.D.F. . ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/66 "2010-07-19T17:53:55Z")
What was Pyle doing in the military in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/67 "2010-07-19T18:28:57Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > What was Pyle doing in the military in the first place? Needed a job? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/68 "2010-07-19T18:38:05Z")
Maybe his father thought he was a wimp and a good stint in the Marines would toughen him up. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/69 "2010-07-19T19:44:12Z")
Cattle cars for troop transport were common in the era of that film. I rode in one from Da Nang airport to Tien Sha when I first arrived in 'Nam. It was very hot and very disconcerting. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/70 "2010-07-19T19:55:49Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > What was Pyle doing in the military in the first place? Drafted, most likely. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/71 "2010-07-19T19:58:04Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Drafted, most likely. I didn’t think the Marine Corps drafted people. ---
**Author:** ![GHO57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df788c/32.png) [@GHO57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GHO57)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/72 "2010-07-19T20:01:49Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > LUXURY ! > > You guys had it easy, we routinely had to have a bayonet between our teeth 24/7 as well as carrying a pinless grenade in our left hands at all times. > > We weren’t allowed to wear socks and we were regulary inspected to see that we had the regulation amount of ground glass in our boots. > > Discipline was harsh, execution for a first offence of looking at a non com “in a funny way”… > > and afterwards our zombie bodies had to make a forced march of one hundred and twenty miles, in full battle order, carrying a two hundred and eighty pound Bergan, underwater, WHILE THEY SHOWED US LIVE FOOTAGE OF THEM SHAGGING OUR WIVES AND GIRLFRIENDS ! > > And we were the lucky ones. > > You young’uns don’t know you’re born. … sounds like our training… apart from being allowed to use your feet for moving about. What did you do AFTER breakfast? ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/73 "2010-07-19T20:32:43Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I didn’t think the Marine Corps drafted people. The Marine Corps does not, strictly speaking. When drafted you are drafted into the “Armed Forces of the United States.” In the mid/late 1960’s, when I was drafted, the Navy and Air Force did not need personnel from the draft, in large part due to the fact that many who were about to be called enlisted in those branches, in most cases to avoid serving in the Army (read: infantry). The Marines did not secure a lot of men via the draft for a couple of resons. First, it is a much smaller organization and second, there are always those who want to be Marines. However, the Marines did take some. I was one of 113 inductees on May 12, 1969. The Marines needed two. To this day it remains the only raffle I ever won. BTW, some who enlisted into the Navy, perhaps to escape hazardous/unpleasant duty, ended up being attached to Marine Corps units as Corpsmen. To say they had it rough would be a gross understatement. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/74 "2010-07-19T20:47:20Z")
He may have been drafted but he obviously somewhat mentally retarded (not sure what term to use.) Shouldn’t this have been picked up on right away? Or were they so desperate for troops that they would take anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/75 "2010-07-20T00:59:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > To be fair, Hartman should have seen what was going on ahead of time. He had enough experience to notice when one of his men was approaching his breaking point. > > He was also a bit of an idiot. When a soldier grabs a weapon and threatens you and/or himself - which happens, from time to time - you don’t start shouting _“WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION!?”_ After a few times watching this scene, I realized that at this climactic moment Hartman said “What is this Mickey Mouse Shit,” or something like that w/ Mickey Mouse. Great connection to hyper-cynical last moments of film. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/76 "2010-07-20T01:11:23Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Cattle cars for troop transport were common in the era of that film. I rode in one from Da Nang airport to Tien Sha when I first arrived in 'Nam. It was very hot and very disconcerting. What’s a ‘Cattle car’? Bus? Real bad over crowded bus? Some sort of tailer? Just finished reading Short Timers. And just started his next book. “The Phantom Blooper”. Another very good Vietnam book (IMHO) is “Chicken Hawk”. It’s about the helicopter pilots by a guy that flew them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/77 "2010-07-20T01:14:33Z")
It’s a rail car, truck or trailer used for transporting livestock or goods. It can be as crude looking as spaced wooden slats bolted to a steel frame. Inside there will be some chains and ropes for securing. No seats, no suspension, no air conditioning. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/78 "2010-07-20T01:21:12Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It’s a rail car, truck or trailer used for transporting livestock or goods. It can be as crude looking as spaced wooden slats bolted to a steel frame. Inside there will be some chains and ropes for securing. No seats, no suspension, no air conditioning. Thanks for the quick answer. And we think GreyHound is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/79 "2010-07-20T02:55:46Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > He may have been drafted but he obviously somewhat mentally retarded (not sure what term to use.) > > Shouldn’t this have been picked up on right away? Or were they so desperate for troops that they would take anyone? By the war’s maximum troop strength, they would take anybody who could fog a mirror. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/80 "2010-07-20T02:56:09Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Another very good Vietnam book (IMHO) is “Chicken Hawk”. It’s about the helicopter pilots by a guy that flew them. [Robert Mason](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickenhawk_%28book%29). A great book, and he has another non fiction and at least two novels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798.md?page=5)