# Full Metal Jacket Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 15, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798 "2010-07-15T17:00:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/81 "2010-07-20T11:27:04Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > What’s a ‘Cattle car’? Bus? Real bad over crowded bus? Some sort of tailer? [![](https://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u190/lstgnfghtr/Army/2102613f.jpg) ](https://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u190/lstgnfghtr/Army/2102613f.jpg) Here is a pretty classic example. They were used throughout the Army, not just at Basic Training. It doesn’t look _too_ bad until you realize they are referred to also as “80 PAX”. Which means they are expected to hold 80 Soldiers (with equipment). Yes, Soldiers are sitting and standing on top of each other. Efficient, but not fun at all! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/82 "2010-07-20T12:17:09Z")
We had [these](http://www.galtal-ltd.co.il/userfiles/image/tyuolit(1).jpg)- basically the same principle, and probably just as fun. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/83 "2010-07-20T12:46:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Is that still the case today? > > I’m asking because it completely contradicts my own experiences in a non-US military (we were supposed to have a full magazine upon us at all times from the second week of basic training, as well as 5 more full mags in our web gear, and we kept a bucket full of loose rounds in our barracks in case someone needed to top off). It was the case during my brother’s training, Spain 199…6 I think. He was in Artillery (specifically, his unit’s job was dismantling an old depot and transferring the ammo there to other locations and/or disposing of it), and the only times he touched weapons with live ammo in them were shooting range during Basic and this one time: Bro was a Driving Instructor and one of the students that day was the Sergeant on Duty, who handed his rifle to Bro saying “hold this a mo, willya” while he climbed on the truck. Bro says he hasn’t been closer to needing a change of underwear in his life. His unit stood guard only inside the depot area, the only one who had a loaded weapon was the SoD. They were issued weapons and had to take care of them, just didn’t get to use them a lot (and they were happy not to, thank you). Basic was common for all branches of the Army, they didn’t know what branch they were going to until the end of Basic. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/84 "2010-07-20T13:15:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I dunno… the scene never rang true to me. Surely that wasn’t the first time a marine had held a gun on his CO; surely Hartman had received some training on how to handle these sort of situations, if not some personal experience with them. I find it hard to believe that the textbook USMC solution to these situations was _shouting_. As I remember it, Hartman at first came in yelling, per SOP. When he heard that Pyle had a locked and loaded rifle, there was a pregnant pause as Hartman realized the situation. Then he spoke firmly, but (compared to his usual manner) reasonably, to Pyle, instructing him to put the rifle on the deck and step away. When Pyle points the rifle at Hartman, the gunny’s instinct kicks in and he goes back to full berating mode. With fatal results. I think Kubrick was sort of demonstrating the tendency of institutional thinking to take over and it’s consequent drawbacks. It’s the same deal with the dim general. You’ll notice that his entire speech is just a series of gung-ho slogans strung together. Since this is something specifically taught not to do in journalism school, Joker must have been all too aware of the lack of originality within the general’s head. When Joker tries to explain the peace symbol, you can practically see the words bouncing off the general’s head with no effect. True to form, the general goes right back into sloganeering, telling Joker to come together for the Big Win. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/85 "2010-07-20T13:49:42Z")
Excellent point. Dehumanization is a major theme in the movie (as in many of Kubrick’s films); in dehumanizing his recruits, Hartman also dehumanized himself. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/86 "2010-07-20T16:26:06Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > As I remember it, Hartman at first came in yelling, per SOP. When he heard that Pyle had a locked and loaded rifle, there was a pregnant pause as Hartman realized the situation. Then he spoke firmly, but (compared to his usual manner) reasonably, to Pyle, instructing him to put the rifle on the deck and step away. When Pyle points the rifle at Hartman, the gunny’s instinct kicks in and he goes back to full berating mode. With fatal results. > > I think Kubrick was sort of demonstrating … Kubrick? AFAIK, the training segment of FMJ is damn near word-for-word from the book it’s based on. I never really give the author credit for a lot of thinking; mostly seems like a lot of “no shit” stories mixed with griping. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798/87 "2010-07-20T16:52:50Z")
Yes, and Kubrick chose to use that segment, to film it, to make it part of his movie. In other words, to make a point about institutional thinking. Just because he didn’t write the book doesn’t mean he can’t be the one making a statement in the movie based on that book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-question/546798.md?page=4)