# Full Metal Jacket: Was the drill instructor a bad guy? (Movie version) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 29, 2010, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743 "2010-10-29T06:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/61 "2010-11-03T01:44:32Z")
I think it strange that none of Hartman’s methods did anything to change Pyle. It was his old buds and the soap that was the turning point, IIRC. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/62 "2010-11-03T02:55:42Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I thought only the first third of the movie was any good, and […] I saw Hartman as the real sympathetic character In my experience, this is the unanimous view. I’ve never met anyone who thought Hartman was the bad guy, or who thought the second half was nearly as good as boot camp. > [@Zsofia](#): > > I have a factual question - okay, this is in Vietnam, a draft war. _Could_ you get washed out? I mean, if “can’t hack it” were an excuse nobody would get drafted into combat roles, right? The Marines in Full Metal Jacket weren’t drafted, they volunteered. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/63 "2010-11-03T06:05:27Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I have a factual question - okay, this is in Vietnam, a draft war. _Could_ you get washed out? I mean, if “can’t hack it” were an excuse nobody would get drafted into combat roles, right? I think there were ways to get out even when drafted, yes. College kids would of course get permission slips and special exemptions from Daddy, but conscientious objection would also have been an option, and I think if you were your family’s primary or sole provider you’d get a ticket out as well (I’m going by the movie \*Tigerland \*here, so take that with a grain of salt :)). The problem being, the majority of draftees who ended up in boot camp (or who volunteered without knowing what they were signing for) were poorly educated and didn’t know any of that - and you can bet your left eye the Army was in no hurry to inform them of their various options and rights. Still isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Box\_A\_Rox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47774/32.png) [@Box\_A\_Rox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Box_A_Rox)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/64 "2010-11-04T20:48:06Z")
Draftees vs. Volunteers in Vietnam: 25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees. (66% of U.S. armed forces members were drafted during WWII.) Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam. Reservists killed: 5,977. National Guard: 6,140 served; 101 died. Total draftees (1965-73): 1,728,344. Actually served in Vietnam: 38% Marine Corps draft: 42,633. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/65 "2010-11-04T21:38:21Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I think it strange that none of Hartman’s methods did anything to change Pyle. It was his old buds and the soap that was the turning point, IIRC. They didn’t change him so much as break him. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/66 "2010-11-05T02:16:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > They didn’t change him so much as break him. Well, that’s what I meant. He didn’t go psycho until that little tete a tete. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/67 "2010-11-05T10:38:07Z")
Now thinking about it, why would Joker have enlisted? I know he gives a tongue-in-cheek answer (“I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill”), but does it seem odd to anyone else that someone like him would have voluntarily put himself there (in the Marines no less) during wartime? (I mean during peacetime there’s always the kinda lost kid, outta shape, figuring out what to do in life, thinking “why not have my ass kicked a bit in boot camp”). ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/68 "2010-11-05T12:28:29Z")
Yeah, and his smirking attitude about editorial policy at _Stars and Stripes_ seemed a bit much as well. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/69 "2010-11-05T16:34:44Z")
Maybe he figured he’d be drafted anyway, and wanted to choose which service he’d join. Maybe he thought being a veteran would look good on his resume. Maybe he just didn’t have any better prospects lined up. Maybe he comes from a long line of soldiers and his family wouldn’t have let him live it down if he didn’t enlist. Or maybe underneath his wisecracking exterior, he really believed in what he was doing. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/70 "2010-11-05T17:43:08Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Yeah, and his smirking attitude about editorial policy at _Stars and Stripes_ seemed a bit much as well. I dunno, to me it seemed natural. If he went into it thinking he’d be doing real, actual combat correspondence and journalism, then I could see how being asked (nay, ordered) to whitewash everything and make stuff up all the time for propaganda purposes would make him jaded and bitter. I’d be too, in his position. BTW, Joker was the book writer’s self-insert, so if anything he should be the most realistic character of them all 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743/71 "2010-11-05T22:28:30Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > If he went into it thinking he’d be doing real, actual combat correspondence and journalism, then I could see how being asked (nay, ordered) to whitewash everything and make stuff up all the time for propaganda purposes would make him jaded and bitter. I’d be too, in his position. I can’t speak for the other dopers who were journalists in the military, but it got to be a predictable dance with people who were so cocooned in a mindset where they could tell others what to do, that they assumed they could tell them what to think as well. Right after I was discharged I interviewed for a new TV networks local affilate: Fox. I was probably a perfect fit, but must have given off an odd vibe and they passed on me. Thank the merciful fates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket-was-the-drill-instructor-a-bad-guy-movie-version/558743.md?page=3)