# Full Metal Jacket **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886 "2005-04-24T18:36:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/21 "2005-04-25T04:27:26Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > Exactly my thought. The first movie ends with the death of the DI, and the suicide of Pyle. Neither incident is brought up in the ‘second’ movie. I thought the de-humanization the Marines went through was directly connected to how they fought the war. Pyle was just a casualty even before the soldiers went to Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/22 "2005-04-25T05:26:39Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > …the futile nature of war. Huh? Throughout history, most wars are fought in the nature of “hmm, either I go out and kill some people, and take their land and/or shit or my children and I die.” You think that war is futile? You lead a blessed life. ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/23 "2005-04-25T05:30:19Z")
> [@litost](#): > > I thought the de-humanization the Marines went through was directly connected to how they fought the war. Pyle was just a casualty even before the soldiers went to Vietnam. That was my take, too. Most Vietnam movies start the very first scene in Vietnam itself, with the fresh faced recruit stepping off the boat into a world he is ill prepared for. OTOH, FMJ seemed to say that these guys were already grim veterans before they ever left US soil. I remember seeing the opening shots of Vietnam and thinking to myself “things can’t get more intense for these guys than they already have gotten.” By the final scene, when Joker looks out of the screen with his haunting thousand-yard stare, the movie has achieved new level of intensity that other Vietnam films seem to fail at. I like the final moment when the soldiers are all singing the Mickey Mouse club scene as they march off into the night. Kubrick is reminding us that these men are hardly more than kids, and simultaneously telling us that what we’ve just seen is nothing compared to the reality. Kubrick located several square blocks outside London of run down urban buildings set to be demolished, and managed to get them reserved as a set for FMJ. That’s where he got all those blown up looking buildings and streets. There never has been a set like that one in any war film, in repeated watchings that’s the aspect of the film that comes through as the most unique. Don’t bother watching Apocolypse Now unless you’re seeing it on a big screen. it just doesn’t translate well. If you wait long enough, a local art house near you will eventually show it. It’s worth the wait. Either version will do. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/24 "2005-04-25T11:33:07Z")
A lot of people tend to criticize the second half of FMJ as not measuring up. It might not be as entertaining, but I’ve always liked it. It adds some depth to the first part. My favorite line. . . “How can you shoot women and children?” “Easy. You just don’t lead them as much.” Here’s a recommendation for a Vietnam movie that not everyone has seen, but is really good: Joel Schumacher’s [Tigerland](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0170691/). Like FMJ, it’s primarily about the troops before they go to Vietnam. It stars Colin Farrell. If you’re a fan, you’ll enjoy him. If you’re not, don’t let that put you off. It’s his first big movie, pretty much, and he’s good in it. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/25 "2005-04-25T13:55:08Z")
> [@August West](#): > > R. Lee Ermey plays nearly the exact same role in[The Boys in Company C](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077270/) , which came out in 1978. He also had an uncredited role as one of the Air Cavalry helicopter pilots in Appocalypse Now. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/26 "2005-04-25T14:22:05Z")
> [@Oslo Ostragoth](#): > > Huh? Throughout history, most wars are fought in the nature of “hmm, either I go out and kill some people, and take their land and/or shit or my children and I die.” > > You think that war is futile? > > You lead a blessed life. Nah, all that death, killing, torture, mutilation and heartbreak is always the best option in any given disagreement. It’s made our country what it is today. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/27 "2005-04-25T14:25:33Z")
All of you FMJ fans should attempt to see _The Boys in Company C_, they are very similar movies. It may be difficult because it is not out on DVD yet, but it’s worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![ColonelDax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@ColonelDax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColonelDax)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/28 "2005-04-25T14:35:26Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Add Platoon to your Neflix queue for what I consider the third great Vietnam movie (alongside Full Metal Jacket and the original Apocalypse Now). If you haven’t seen it already, I strongly recommend a viewing of _Go Tell the Spartans_. If you have seen it already, we’ll have to agree to disagree about the great Vietnam movies. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/29 "2005-04-25T15:46:23Z")
> [@Othersider](#): > > Does anyone else think _Full Metal Jacket_ kinda seems like 2 shorter movies, in a sequence, put together? Almost all American movies since the silent era are three-act plays. It’s not always obvious where the acts change, but you’re so used to that format that seeing something with more or less acts feels weird somehow. Take _2001: A Space Odessey_ for example. The act breaks are very clear: Act 1 is the Savannah and the first appearance of the monolith. Act 2 is Heywood Flloyd’s trip to the moon and the discovery of the monolith there, and Act 3 is the _Discovery’s_ jouney to Jupiter. _Full Metal Jacket_ and _Eyes Wide Shut_ are both two-act plays. FMJ is, of course, the more successful of the two by a long shot. An interesting aside.\* I deliberately tried to write a screenplay free of any kind of act structure–the idea was it was going to be one long series of scenes with rising and falling action in a totally novel and random order–more like a conversation among several people that meanders in several different direction than a play with rising and falling actions. I finished the screenplay and when I went back a couple of months later to do another draft I noticed that the script had three clear acts, with rising and falling and complicating actions just like McKee would advise. \*well, I think it’s interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/30 "2005-04-25T22:00:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Exactly my thought. The first movie ends with the death of the DI, and the suicide of Pyle. Neither incident is brought up in the ‘second’ movie. I think they’re tied a lot more closely together than that. The first half is incomplete without the second: Pyle thinks that boot camp is a world of shit, but he’s wrong, dead wrong. This is what we see in the second half: War is the true world of shit, and Pyle didn’t have a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886/31 "2005-04-26T15:02:35Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I would add “Hamburger Hill” as a film that’s worth watching once or twice. The acting is somewhat hammy, but it does a fair job of pointing out the futile nature of war. The battle scenes, though, were well done. When I saw it in the theater, there were some guys that were apparently 'Nam vets in the audience, and they freaked and hit the floor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/full-metal-jacket/300886.md?page=1)