# fundamentalists don't read the Bible **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182 "2002-03-26T14:09:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tclouie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@tclouie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tclouie)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/1 "2002-03-26T14:09:45Z")
It is really galling to me that fire-and-brimstone fundamentalist Christians are always quoting scripture and pretending that their faith is the only genuine one. Well, I have noticed that fundamentalists tend to quote very selectively. Have you noticed? They most often quote the letters of Paul, written by a guy who never met Jesus. If they quote the original gospels at all, it’s ONLY the book of John. And they sure as hell NEVER quote the Sermon on the Mount! It’s like that part doesn’t exist for them. Fundamentalists say faith is the ONLY thing that saves you, and good deeds matter nothing. Well, just casually paging through my New Testament, I can find lots of passages where Jesus says that if you act a certain way, you’ll go to Heaven. Fundamentalists say if you don’t profess faith in the instant before you die, you’ll go to Hell forever. Well, how about those passages that call for us to pray for the dead? What’s that for, if they’re already in Hell? Also, what about the thing about the camel getting through the eye of a needle easier than a rich man getting into Heaven? Fundamentalists NEVER quote that passage. My Republican father says that’s a mistranslation – “camel” is really supposed to be “rope”. (Hmmm, still seems it would be pretty hard…) Well, I have the New American translation, and guess what? It’s still a camel! And what about that part of the Sermon on the Mount that forbids public prayer and public displays of piety? Seems to me that should stop those street-corner evangelists from shouting at me. It should also stop church services, period. ---
**Author:** ![self-taut\_artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@self-taut\_artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/self-taut_artist)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/2 "2002-03-26T14:25:09Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by tclouie \* Also, what about the thing about the camel getting through the eye of a needle easier than a rich man getting into Heaven? Fundamentalists NEVER quote that passage. My Republican father says that’s a mistranslation – “camel” is really supposed to be “rope”. (Hmmm, still seems it would be pretty hard…) Well, I have the New American translation, and guess what? It’s still a camel! The way I heard it was that upon returning to the city or fortress or whatever, those guys and their camels had to enter through a somewhat small opening. The camels had to scrunch down (on their knees?) to do this. Not impossible, but not an easy task. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/3 "2002-03-26T15:16:27Z")
The “camel through the eye of a needle” is hyperbole, folks. It’s just a literary device to exagerate the degree of difficulty that a rich man has to enter heaven. Sorry, there is no factual basis for camels “scrunching” into Jerusalem. It is breathtakingly naive to interpret similes and metaphors literally. If one reads of a baseball screaming over the plate, does that mean that sports equipment is sentient?In the gospels, Jesus refers to his followers as sheep; does this mean that Christians are supposed to eat grass and say “baaa” a lot? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/4 "2002-03-26T15:31:32Z")
I too, love the Sermon on the Mount. However, I don’t seem to recall it “forbidding” anything. You may be thinking of another passage condemning piety for piety’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/5 "2002-03-26T15:39:42Z")
“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.” (Shakespeare). You provide a perfect example by citing the “eye of the needle” story without mentioning the rest of it. Matthew 19:24-26 > [@](#): > > And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. > > When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? > > But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but **with God all things are possible.** Mark 10:25-27 > [@](#): > > It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. > > And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? > > And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men [it is] impossible, but not with God: for **with God all things are possible.** Luke 18:25-27 > [@](#): > > For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. > > And they that heard [it] said, Who then can be saved? > > And he said, **The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.** See also the Staff Report and follow-up [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrichman.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrichman.html) and [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrichma2.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrichma2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/6 "2002-03-26T15:50:26Z")
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that Fundamentalists never / heven’t _read_ the Bible, I think that many of them just avoid thinking about it to hard, as thought can lead to questioning, which can lead to uncertainty. Thought requires _energy_, uncertainty tests _Faith_, and many Fundamentalists simply don’t wish to spend the energy to think & examine their faith. Many, I suspect, are in secret fear that their faith is weak, and as such, would rather lash out against anything which might test that faith. BTW: I’m Christian, and born again. I also question and examine my faith, because to _not_ do so means that I’m failing in my duty to understand my faith. It isn’t always easy, or comfortable, and I have unanswered questions. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/7 "2002-03-26T15:55:12Z")
Or what about James, where it says that Faith without Works is lifeless? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/8 "2002-03-26T15:55:12Z")
louie, Welcome to my world, in which I am constantly plagued with those who don’t read the Bible, but rather worship it. ---
**Author:** ![self-taut\_artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@self-taut\_artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/self-taut_artist)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/9 "2002-03-26T16:02:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*It is breathtakingly naive to interpret similes and metaphors literally. If one reads of a baseball screaming over the plate, does that mean that sports equipment is sentient?In the gospels, Jesus refers to his followers as sheep; does this mean that Christians are supposed to eat grass and say “baaa” a lot? \*\* You’re saying we’re not sheep? Geez, don’t that beat all. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/10 "2002-03-26T16:12:39Z")
Hi, Louie. The OP is a heckuva easy misinterpretation to make. And the behavior of most evangelical Christians seems to support your point. In point of fact, however, that is not the stance they take. Please check out any of a wide range of threads on several forums, particularly the Kitchen, at [The Pizza Parlor](http://thebruces.stormbirds.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=4), where a wide range of Christians and other people interested in this sort of debate, explore the issues in question. Just for the record, Paul is supposed to have met Jesus in a Resurrection appearance to him (see Acts 9ff) and to have been inspired to write the stuff in his letters by the Holy Spirit whom Jesus is, according to Scripture, to have sent to guide the faithful. This does not mean, IMHO, that he got everything precisely right. But if you really want to get into this sort of stuff in detail, follow that link. ---
**Author:** ![tclouie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@tclouie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tclouie)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/11 "2002-03-26T16:15:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Munch \* > \*\*I too, love the Sermon on the Mount. However, I don’t seem to recall it “forbidding” anything. You may be thinking of another passage condemning piety for piety’s sake. \*\* OK, it’s in Matthew 6:5-6, which is part of the Sermon on the Mount. “When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites! They love to stand up and pray in the houses of worship and on the street corners, so that everyone will see them. I assure you they have already been paid in full. But when you pray, go to your room, close the door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what you do in private, will reward you.” **bibliophage** – good point. But it seems significant to me that he singled out rich men, not poor men or moderately comfortable men. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/12 "2002-03-26T16:21:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tclouie \* > \*\*Fundamentalists say if you don’t profess faith in the instant before you die, you’ll go to Hell forever. Well, how about those passages that call for us to pray for the dead? What’s that for, if they’re already in Hell? \*\* Could you point me in the direction of these passages? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/13 "2002-03-26T18:29:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tclouie \* > \*\*Well, how about those passages that call for us to pray for the dead? What’s that for, if they’re already in Hell? \*\* What are these passages of which you speak? Can you provide specifics, so that we can examine their exact wordings? ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/14 "2002-03-26T18:49:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*Please check out any of a wide range of threads on several forums, particularly the Kitchen, at [The Pizza Parlor](http://thebruces.stormbirds.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=4), where a wide range of Christians and other people interested in this sort of debate, explore the issues in question. \*\* If by “wide range” you mean a bunch of mindless fundmanentalists with a handful of Catholics and other real Christians tossed in. The Pizza Parlor: Where anti-gay hate screeds are “conversation” and WorldNetDaily is actually considered a reputable news source. Spreading bigotry and malice since 2000 AD. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/15 "2002-03-26T19:33:34Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** Let’s keep the impassioned discussions of the merits and demerits of other message boards on those other boards, please. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/16 "2002-03-26T19:33:35Z")
**tclouie** > [@](#): > > Well, how about those passages that call for us to pray for the dead? What’s that for, if they’re already in Hell? **Mangetout** > [@](#): > > Could you point me in the direction of these passages? **JThunder** > [@](#): > > What are these passages of which you speak? Can you provide specifics, so that we can examine their exact wordings? **tclouie** appears to accept the Apocrypha. All further discussion on _this_ point will be colored by one’s acceptance or rejection of _that_ point. 2 Maccabees 12: > [@](#): > > [39] On the next day, as by that time it had become necessary, Judas and his men went to take up the bodies of the fallen and to bring them back to lie with their kinsmen in the sepulchres of their fathers. > [40] Then under the tunic of every one of the dead they found sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. And it became clear to all that this was why these men had fallen. > [41] So they all blessed the ways of the Lord, the righteous Judge, who reveals the things that are hidden; > [42] and they turned to prayer, beseeching that the sin which had been committed might be wholly blotted out. And the noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. > [43] He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection. > [44] For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. > [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/17 "2002-03-26T19:39:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > If by “wide range” you mean a bunch of mindless fundmanentalists with a handful of Catholics and other **real Christians** tossed in. _bolding brought to you by Monty_ Care to explain what, exactly, a “real Christian” is and how, exactly, you get to be the one to make that determination? ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/18 "2002-03-26T19:42:28Z")
By the same right as the fundamentalist non-Christians claim to decide who is and isn’t Christian, by my own judgement. If the Baptist bigots can spit on Catholics for having the gall not to be braindead Biblical literalists, then I will more than return the favor. Fundamentalism is evil to its very core, as are those who support it. That is my position, and if they can spread their filthy lies about Catholics, gays, real Protestants and non-Christians, then I will gladly spit right back in their putrid faces. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/19 "2002-03-26T19:45:49Z")
Um, that would be it then-Maccabees isn’t in the Protestant Bible-or is it? 😕 **Polycarp** is a mod over at the Pizza Parlor. I think his judgment would be accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182/20 "2002-03-26T19:51:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*By the same right as the fundamentalist non-Christians claim to decide who is and isn’t Christian, by my own judgement. > > If the Baptist bigots can spit on Catholics for having the gall not to be braindead Biblical literalists, then I will more than return the favor. > > Fundamentalism is evil to its very core, as are those who support it. That is my position, and if they can spread their filthy lies about Catholics, gays, real Protestants and non-Christians, then I will gladly spit right back in their putrid faces. > > Kirk \*\* Yowch! Bitter much? You ARE aware that there are different schools of belief even among Baptists? I believe we had this discussion before. _sigh_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fundamentalists-dont-read-the-bible/100182.md?page=2)