# Funeral Protocol Changed **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740 "2011-10-25T15:06:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sarge6thCav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Sarge6thCav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarge6thCav)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/1 "2011-10-25T15:06:08Z")
Has anyone run into this at a military funeral? [http://www.theconservativenews.com/reader\_submissions](http://www.theconservativenews.com/reader_submissions) ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/2 "2011-10-25T15:13:43Z")
> [@Sarge6thCav](#): > > Has anyone run into this at a military funeral? > [http://www.theconservativenews.com/reader\_submissions](http://www.theconservativenews.com/reader_submissions) Well it could be because Obama is a secret Muslim who hates his country, or it could be something that is easily explained by searching Snopes. I can’t decide. In general though, we have to give the benefit of doubt to the conservatives who ginned up a phony reason to send troops into harms way and then didn’t send them humvees armored against IEDs. Like Newt Gingrich who is so pro-family that he’s had half a dozen of them, conservatives love dead and injured veterans so much that they want to have more. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/3 "2011-10-25T15:16:20Z")
Snopes gives an [explanation.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/funeral.asp) > [@](#): > > Only a commissioned officer in the United States military can technically speak for the President of the United States (or, more correctly, for the Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. armed forces). For the Old Guard, this was not a concern because a commissioned officer was present for every funeral. This was not possible under the new program, so it became necessary to change the words we speak in order to keep the meaning and honor of the verbiage. Now, using the new minimum wording, any military person can render honors without sacrificing the integrity of the officer’s commission and the President’s authority. > [@](#): > > **It may be of further note that this initiative was taken by the U.S. Military, not by an act of the President. The change happened in 2007 under then-President George W. Bush.** It was not a conspiracy to undermine the honor given to veterans, but to protect the oaths we are sworn to uphold. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/4 "2011-10-25T15:17:31Z")
_ninja’d_ ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/5 "2011-10-25T15:20:40Z")
I can’t wait to see all the conservatives that update their spam to aim it at Bush and the military rather than Obama. The WH inbox is going to be so full of apologies that it might overflow. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/6 "2011-10-25T15:21:39Z")
Fucking right-wing ninnys. Per Snopes: > [@](#): > > It may be of further note that this initiative was taken by the U.S. Military, not by an act of the President. **The change happened in 2007 under then-President George W. Bush** (_emphasis added)_. Per a trainer with the Army National Guard Funeral Honors Program, the range, breadth and number of funerals lead to non-officers taking on the solemn duty. Only officers, however, can “can technically speak for the President of the United States.” Hence, “it became necessary to change the words we speak in order to keep the meaning and honor of the verbiage. Now, using the new minimum wording, any military person can render honors without sacrificing the integrity of the officer’s commission and the President’s authority.” ETA: Also, Rio. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/7 "2011-10-25T15:21:48Z")
I haven’t heard about it or seen it, but I see there is a lot of discussion about it online. Most of that discussion is written to imply (without saying it) that Obama had the reference to the presidency removed because he hates the military. Unsurprisingly, that’s not true. There was no presidential order about this and the change was made before Obama took office. The gist is that it’s against protocol for noncommissioned officers to speak on behalf of the president, and it’s not possible for a commissioned officer to attend every military funeral, so sometimes you hear the Secretary of Defense named instead. [Snopes explains the details here.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/funeral.asp) Even if you’re of a mind to believe Obama would do this kind of thing because he hates the military - and I’m not saying the OP is, but some people think that way - he would have to also be very stupid to air his disrespect that way. _…And that’s what I get for starting on a post and then getting busy with other stuff._ ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/8 "2011-10-26T12:56:22Z")
During my dad’s funeral last year I’m sure the sailor said “On behalf of the President …”. I supposed he could have been a commissioned officer, but was wearing what I’d consider a normal seamans uniform as in [this pic](http://i.ehow.com/images/a05/9f/fb/navy-uniform-regulations-1.1-800x800.jpg). Would an officer wear this style of uniform? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/9 "2011-10-26T13:58:18Z")
> [@kferr](#): > > During my dad’s funeral last year I’m sure the sailor said “On behalf of the President …”. I supposed he could have been a commissioned officer, but was wearing what I’d consider a normal seamans uniform as in [this pic](http://i.ehow.com/images/a05/9f/fb/navy-uniform-regulations-1.1-800x800.jpg). Would an officer wear this style of uniform? He might have been an old-school veteran rather than an active duty sailor, and not heard about the new general regulation. My dad still wears that style of uniform for funeral services with the American Legion, and he’s been out for the better part of four decades. Come to think of it, I’m not sure what the general deal is with personnel present for military funerals of veterans. In rural PA where I grew up, it was generally the VFW/American Legion supplying the color guard and the chaplain, rather than it being active-duty personnel. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/10 "2011-10-26T15:23:03Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Snopes gives an [explanation.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/funeral.asp) Heh - mrAru was not an officer, and he worked with the honor guard assigned for my Dad’s funeral, and he used the original wording. My dad was somewhat of a traditionalist. [he also provided the flag, one that had been flown over the Spadefish when it was moored in Bremerhaven back in the 80s] ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/11 "2011-10-27T06:59:57Z")
I guess it makes sense that the guys would be ex-Navy and in the Legion or whatever. It’s not like there are a lot of Naval bases in Arkansas where you could find an officer available on a few day’s notice. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/12 "2011-10-27T11:53:46Z")
> [@kferr](#): > > I guess it makes sense that the guys would be ex-Navy and in the Legion or whatever. It’s not like there are a lot of Naval bases in Arkansas where you could find an officer available on a few day’s notice. There’s one in Millington, TN - very close to Arkansas. Besides, recruiting commands in the state would make officers available locally. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/13 "2011-10-27T14:18:19Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > There’s one in Millington, TN - very close to Arkansas. Besides, recruiting commands in the state would make officers available locally. Is that supposed to be a thing, or is my memory faulty? I only remember recruiting commands making officers available for recent vets or active-duty soldiers, and I remember my dad and his Legion guys doing the color guard and flag-folding for a good many local veteran funerals of WWII vets and similar. Perhaps its something the family has to request, and my area is just more prone to talking to the local veteran’s association? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/14 "2011-10-27T14:33:31Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Is that supposed to be a thing, or is my memory faulty? I only remember recruiting commands making officers available for recent vets or active-duty soldiers, and I remember my dad and his Legion guys doing the color guard and flag-folding for a good many local veteran funerals of WWII vets and similar. > > Perhaps its something the family has to request, and my area is just more prone to talking to the local veteran’s association? > [@](#): > > Military Funeral Honors have always been provided whenever possible. However, the law now mandates the rendering of Military Funeral Honors for an eligible veteran if requested by the family. As provided by law, an honor guard detail for the burial of an eligible veteran shall consist of not less than two members of the Armed Forces. One member of the detail shall be a representative of the parent Service of the deceased veteran. The honor detail will, at a minimum, perform a ceremony that includes the folding and presenting of the American flag to the next of kin and the playing of Taps. Taps will be played by a bugler, if available, or by electronic recording. Today, there are so few buglers available that the Military Services often cannot provide one. [From here.](http://www.militaryfuneralhonors.osd.mil/faqpage.html) The American Legion and the VFW are typically able to provide a more elaborate service that includes a rifle salute. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/15 "2011-10-27T14:40:34Z")
Does it have to be a military bugler? It just seems to me that a live bugle would be so much more dignified than a recording. You would think the local high school would have someone available to put on a suit and play Taps. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/16 "2011-10-27T14:48:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Does it have to be a military bugler? It just seems to me that a live bugle would be so much more dignified than a recording. You would think the local high school would have someone available to put on a suit and play Taps. It doesn’t–one older gentlemen and I were each paid a small stipend by the local American Legion post to do bugling duties as needed. Him in his Scoutmaster uniform, me in Civil Air Patrol, it worked out. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/17 "2011-10-27T14:58:52Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > It doesn’t–one older gentlemen and I were each paid a small stipend by the local American Legion post to do bugling duties as needed. Him in his Scoutmaster uniform, me in Civil Air Patrol, it worked out. That sounds perfectly appropriate. I’m glad there are people like you willing to lend a hand for our vets. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/18 "2011-10-28T03:34:16Z")
For several years, as a lieutenant, I was the go-to guy at Fort Benning for high-profile funerals. (You get good at something and they give you more of it to do.) I have presented almost a hundred flags over the years 1982-1985 or so. The speech was; _On behalf of the Secretary of Defense I present you this flag in appreciation of your husband/son/daughter’s service._ Or perhaps I was doing it wrong. Still I looked _good_ doing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/19 "2011-10-29T17:51:04Z")
What amazes me is that this time my inbox is stuffed with forwarded mail from conservatives apologizing to the President and making sure that the misinformation is corrected. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740/20 "2011-10-30T19:21:25Z")
perhaps the funeral attendees should look at the bright side. Why would they want anything done to them _on behalf of Barack Obama_ [del]and everything for which he stands[/del] in the first place? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/funeral-protocol-changed/600740.md?page=2)