# Furious about my grandmothers hatemongering... please help me tell her she's wrong **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 24, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954 "2003-04-24T21:51:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Phatlewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Phatlewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatlewt)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/1 "2003-04-24T21:51:04Z")
I get a lot of junk email from my grandmother. Usually, it’s no big deal. I got this one today, and I just can’t let it slide. I have to say something to her, but I don’t want to send her to the Pit… I realize that this is usually Pit material, but the idea is, I **don’t** want to use pit language and attitude in my reply. However, I’m too angry not to, so I need your help… Here’s a copy of the mail… > [@](#): > > Read 'em and weep.This one is impossible to believe. Scroll down for the > text. > > [Link to Image from email](http://www-personal.umich.edu/~cmessina/stamp.jpg) > > REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of PanAm Flight 103! > > REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993! > > REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon! > > REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the military barracks in Saudi Arabia! > > REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the American Embassies in Africa! > > REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the USS COLE! > > REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on the Twin Towers on 9/11/2001! > > REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were lost in those vicious MUSLIM > attacks! > > Now the United States Postal Service REMEMBERS and HONORS the EID MUSLIM > holiday season with a commemorative first class holiday postage stamp. > > REMEMBER to adamantly and vocally BOYCOTT this stamp when purchasing your > stamps at the post office. To use this stamp would be a slap in the face > to all those AMERICANS who died at the hands of those whom this stamp > honors. Oh… That’s just f’ing great grandma. Lets blame ALL muslims the world around for terrorism! In addition, let’s just boycott everything muslim while we’re at it! That will will do wonders in helping the world not hate arrogant and ignorant Americans like you, grandma. I’m not going to let this slide without saying something to her… However, I’m too full of frustration to come up with a reply that doesn’t belong in the Pit. Can anyone _please_ help me come up with a reply that says “this is the most absurd notion I’ve read in years.” without calling my grandmother a bunch of nasty names? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/2 "2003-04-24T21:55:11Z")
How about “Grandmother, add up all the fatalities from those incidents, and then weigh them against the number of Americans who get shot by other Americans every year, and go figure who you should be getting _really_ upset about”? It probably won’t work, though. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/3 "2003-04-24T22:22:18Z")
It might take a bit of Googling, but I’m sure you can come up with a copy of G. W. Bush’s post 9/11 remarks which carefully separated believers of Islam from terrorists. Of course, if Grandma is so far around the bend that she won’t take George W. Bush’s word for it, there’s probably no hope. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/4 "2003-04-24T22:33:18Z")
Ask her waht she thinks about the Post Office and Christmas stamps. Then tell her: REMEMBER to adamantly and vocally BOYCOTT these CHRISTMAS stamps when purchasing your stamps at the post office. To use this stamp would be a slap in the face to all those ABORTION CLINIC DOCTORS who died at the hands of those whom this stamp honors. If she doesn’t get the point, don’t bother trying. She will be dead soon enough. – Sorry if that’s dickish, but that’s how I view bigotry when it comes from any older person, members of my family included. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/5 "2003-04-24T22:48:20Z")
I got the same email from my Aunt. We’ve been through this time and again: she’s a very conservative fundamentalist Christian. I am not. I actually got something just like this quite a while ago, but about how racial profiling is good (quiz-style: “who bombed this?”) I recieved this email from my aunt immediately after I’d gotten off the phone with a friend. Said friend’s father had just missed a flight for a business trip, due to security questioning, due to him being Iranian. Note to self: E-mailing people when you’re really, really, _ **really** _ emotional is generally a bad idea. She didn’t get the hint. Keeps sending me stuff. A while back, I sent her an email explaining a few points: > [@](#): > > Aunt {name}: > > I know we’ve been through this before, though I realize I haven’t approached the issue very well. But in light of what I consider the very bigotted and hateful email you’ve been forwarding to me, I want to outline the way I see a few things. > > Not all muslims are terrorists. In fact, a couple good friends of mine practice Islam, and they’re really not terrorists. Coincidentally, not all terrorists are muslim. Yes, there are many extremists groups, as there are in any religion/group. There are Christian, Catholic, Jewish, atheist, vegetarian, socialist, capitalists - anyone, really, can be involved in terrorism. Some people, in fact, see some of President Bush’s actions as bordering on terrorism. > > I respect your right to your own personal views, and your right to say whatever you wish. However, I’m very hurt when you send me messages like this. I know you realize that several of my good friends are Muslim - you met one of them at my bat mitzvah when I was in eighth grade. He did not, as you may have noticed, attempt to blow up the synagogue. However, you may choose to believe what you wish. I simply and respectfully request that you don’t include me when you send these messages to your friends. I can’t help but see them as baseless and hateful slander with the only intent of fostering racism. > > Thanks for your time, love you lots. How did it go over? Weeellll…it didn’t _ruin_ my relationship with her (that was very recently, when she called by boyfriend a n----- to his face. That’s just the type of person she is.) It didn’t really help anything, though. I ended up chaning my email address and not telling her. She still forwards crap like this to my mom all the time. I think, really, some people are just…not going to get it. Good luck, though. ---
**Author:** ![Scotticher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Scotticher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scotticher)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/6 "2003-04-25T01:57:31Z")
I think that it is important to recognize that your gram may be “parroting” things people have told her. She may not have actually THOUGHT about these things for herself. My father was raised at a time when “nigger” was a wrong thing to call someone. However, at that time, “colored” was the accepted term for people of color. When I got to be old enough to have my own opinions and bold enough to express them, I objected to my father calling African-Americans “colored.” I asked that he refer to someone of African descent as Black. He was, at first, perplexed. “What is wrong with that?” I said “Dad, the people you are referring to feel that “colored” is offensive.” He said that he wasn’t BEING offensive, he wasn’t denigrating them, so why should they be offended? I said “Dad, if someone is offended by some term by which you refer to them, and you KNOW it, isn’t it offensive of you to USE it in reference to them?” He thought about it for about ten seconds and then said…“YES. I won’t use that term again.” And he never has. Of course, now it appears that “Black” has become derogatory in some people’s thinking, but he is 84 after all, and I don’t have enough energy to go through this again. BUT…the point is, once he really LISTENED to me, he understood and changed his thinking. Maybe your Gram just needs to have someone talk to her about how she is confusing all Muslim people with terrorists who happen to BE Muslim. Maybe she needs to be reminded that people who bomb abortion clinics and kill innocent persons in the process…people who kill people who don’t conform with their own version of Christianity…these people are terrorists who happen to SAY they are Christians. They are not ALL Christians, and I am willing to bet that they are not HER kind of Christian. They certainly aren’t MINE. I think it is worth a try, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![SouthernSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@SouthernSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SouthernSky)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/7 "2003-04-25T02:04:25Z")
Poor dear. The 'net just opened up a whole new world for her, didn’t it? I was previously deluged with tons of glurge from otherwise well-meaning folk who really believed that something (!) would happen if they didn’t forward (blah blah blah). Just hated those things, and still do. After seeing just way too many (especially after 9/11), I sent out a polite request to everyone NOT to forward anything - if they wanted to email a newsy chat or something, fine, but NOTHING else. Well, THAT sure went over like a lead balloon - oh was I a big meany! A few were so ‘insulted’ that they haven’t written back (thank you!). Take the high road with your gramma. She doesn’t understand that this is offensive, and she may have lived in a very small world. All you have to do is tell her you enjoy hearing what is going on with her, but you would prefer not to receive items like that. There is no need to act huffy about it. You’re going to be old some day, and karma does come back around. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/8 "2003-04-25T02:07:01Z")
umm… maybe you could point out WHY those people felt the need to target the US? Maybe you could remind her of the good that muslims do? (charity being one of the pillars) maybe you could point out that every religion has adherents who do wrong in its name (the inquistion, the salem witch trials, the crusades, apartheid, slavery, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/9 "2003-04-25T11:18:13Z")
I take an approach not totally unlike mouthbreather’s. I love my grandparents dearly. They’re kind, loving, humorous people that would do absolutely anything for me or anyone else in my family. I can honestly say that I’ve **never** been in any kind of fight or even slight arguement with either of my grandparents. Sadly enough though, they’re racist. The most I’ve ever said to them is “Well, I don’t agree with that” or “I don’t think that’s right” because anything else would be pointless to say. I just let it go. They don’t vote, they don’t have friends, they don’t actively express their beliefs to other people or try to bring harm to anyone. They’re a dying breed that can do no more harm. To me, they’re just a couple of great people with a blemish on their personalities, like if you had a friend that liked Molly Shannon or something. Hope that doesn’t sound too insensitive, that’s just how I feel. I love my grandparents more than I hate their racism. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/10 "2003-04-25T11:45:36Z")
1. Let it slide 2. Say, “Grandma, there are lots and lots and lots of Muslims around the world. If they are all bad people, or even half of them are bad people, we’d all be dead by now.” ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/11 "2003-04-25T11:54:00Z")
I got so pissed off with the stupid shit my mil sends, that I set up a filter to delete anything containing “fwd:” in the subject line. Life is good now. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/12 "2003-04-25T13:43:28Z")
I’d let it slide, but the only hatemongering relative I have is 102 and quite deaf; I suppose I might feel differently about it if she were younger and could hear me. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/13 "2003-04-25T13:56:00Z")
I bet there are many times more people who have been murdered by persons claiming Catholic or Protestant or Christian superiority. The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Hundred Years War, the Irish Civil War, certain anti-abortion fanatics (not activists - fanatics - there is a difference) killing health care workers who are unlucky to be receptionists in a clinic, nutjobs who kill gays because “the Bible says it’s evil,” etc. But in fact those people are a tiny minority among all the Catholics/Protestants/Christians in the world. Maybe you could point out to Grandma how juding an entire religion from the actions of a relative few can come back to bite her in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/14 "2003-04-25T14:15:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kunilou \* > \*\*It might take a bit of Googling, but I’m sure you can come up with a copy of G. W. Bush’s post 9/11 remarks which carefully separated believers of Islam from terrorists. > > Of course, if Grandma is so far around the bend that she won’t take George W. Bush’s word for it, there’s probably no hope. \*\* George Bush, Sept 20, 2001: > [@](#): > > I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It’s practiced freely by many millions of Americans, and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends. ---
**Author:** ![Adridne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@Adridne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Adridne)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/15 "2003-04-25T14:22:04Z")
> [@](#): > > - Originally posted by Phatlewt\* > **REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were lost in those vicious MUSLIM attacks!** Because “MUSLIM” and “AMERICAN” are mutually exclusive terms, you know. Some MUSLIMS claim to be AMERICAN, but they’re not real AMERICANS. Only white protestants are real AMERICANS. ---
**Author:** ![OldBroad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@OldBroad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldBroad)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/16 "2003-04-25T14:22:32Z")
She won’t change her opinions. You can let her know that you disagree; and even tell her why if she’ll give you the opportunity, but don’t expect your logic and arguments to make any difference in her outlook. If she feels her opinions as strongly as you do yours, she’s trying just as hard to convince you that you’re the one who’s wrong. There are some things you cannot change. This is most likely one of them. Let it go. The _delete_ is a wonderful invention. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/17 "2003-04-25T14:45:49Z")
My grandma, while fairly liberal in most regards, has some homophobic tendencies (nothing assholish, just some passing comments when we’re at her house on occasion). I, her (closeted to the family through a shitload of lies) bisexual granddaughter, do not say anything. I know how to pick my battles. I know my grandma would _never_ say anything to someone, and would not say such things in public. She knows that it’s not societally acceptable; that doesn’t change 74 years of indoctrination telling her that homosexuality is wrong. I know it’s a product of her generation, and she’s a generally cool person. She is just very, very stubborn, and would not appreciate Were I to broach the topic, though, I would do it in as nonconfrontational manner as possible; perhaps I would mention that a few of my friends are gay (or that one of my friends in Muslim), and that we’ve actually talked through these issues, and (for instance) Islam is not a violent religion, and that a stamp honoring her and her family’s holiday is completely in keeping with American pluralism. If she argues to the point of souring relations…let it go. Seriously. She’s your grandma; you’re supposed to love her anyway. And set up your mail filters. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/18 "2003-04-25T14:47:17Z")
Gah. I didn’t finish the first paragraph. That should read “…and would not appreciate being corrected by her college-age grandchild.” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/19 "2003-04-25T17:20:14Z")
My son was in the same position with his grandma. He finally stopped communicating with her. She’s bigoted and elitist and downright mean most of the time, so he just won’t have anything to do with her anymore. It’s sad, but I’m glad he took a stand, too. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954/20 "2003-04-25T18:01:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by irishgirl \* > \*\*umm… > maybe you could point out WHY those people felt the need to target the US? \*\* Yeah! All Americans DESERVE TO DIE! The people in NYC DESERVED TO BE MURDERED! Yeah, baby! Yeah, baby! Yeah, baby! Yeah, baby! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-about-my-grandmothers-hatemongering-please-help-me-tell-her-shes-wrong/170954.md?page=2)