# Furious mom sends scolding email to son's fiance re her etiquette lapses. Are her criticisms valid? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 1, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457 "2011-07-01T01:07:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/181 "2011-07-04T11:26:35Z")
No, that looks like standard upper-middle-class partying to me. For comparison, the Sun was running pictures of Pippa Middleton wearing a minidress made out of loo roll at a house party – this is the same kind of thing. I’ve heard US Americans are much more fretful about nudity than we tend to be, and this is a good example that doesn’t look “modern and cool” or anything like that to me, it looks like someone’s aunt hosting a tarts and vicars party. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/182 "2011-07-04T12:15:22Z")
Er… “tarts and vicars party?” Never heard that before… care to elaborate on the custom? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/183 "2011-07-04T12:45:58Z")
It’s a themed costume party in which all the male guests dress like priests, bishops, and other clergymen and all the female guests dress like prostitutes. I learned that from the Bridget Jones movie. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/184 "2011-07-04T13:22:26Z")
Or women dress like sexy nuns, men dress in drag as hookers, etc. In my opinion/experience it tends to be a popular theme among the upper middle class and upper class, very “what a lark, we’re having a jolly old time just like the plebs!” I blame the C of E. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/185 "2011-07-04T13:30:07Z")
From the excerpts of the letter posted in the OP, it’s easy to imagine two different situations. If you take those details, you can picture a young woman who is loud and used to being treated like a princess, or you can picture an older woman who has unreasonable expectations. Of course, the most damning thing for the MIL is the fact that she sent the e-mail in the first place. Then when I learned about Daughter-in-law’s diabetes, all of the gripes about etiquette at the dinner table seem much more monstrous, where MIL may have caused a medical emergency. The more details that come out, the worse she looks, and the harder it becomes to justify writing what she wrote. If this was an e-mail sent from my mother to my fiancee, she would definitely no longer be welcome at my wedding, but it would break my heart to do so, being my own mother. If this was my stepmother, I would refuse to even see my father is she was in his presence. I would be surprised if the couple doesn’t completely shun this horrible, spiteful woman from their lives. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/186 "2011-07-04T18:07:27Z")
> [@Martiju](#): > > True, but I think **Anaamika** \*\*'s\*\* point was that you don’t tell the host WHY you don’t want something, as the associated bodily functions aren’t suitable topics for discussion… Unfortunately this may become necessary if the host won’t take no for an answer and keeps insisting one try it or saying what’s the worst that could happen. > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > …I also wonder why her son didn’t give the girl some lessons, I mean he grew up in the house, surely he would have known.. This is the grooms _stepmother_, not his actual mother. Freddie was 21 when is father married her so he’s probally never been more than a casual visitor in the home. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/187 "2011-07-04T18:40:42Z")
Also, Freddie has a real mother, so he isn’t exactly wanting for one… ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/188 "2011-07-04T18:59:45Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Er… “tarts and vicars party?” Never heard that before… care to elaborate on the custom? That’s the polite, English version of pimps 'n hoes. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/189 "2011-07-04T19:49:46Z")
I suppose vicars and pimps _do_ both have distinctive fashion senses… ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/190 "2011-07-04T20:18:35Z")
Had she written “One does . . .” and “One does not . . .” it might be easier to take her seriously as an etiquette maven. As it is, I will always think of her as “Hyacinth.” ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/191 "2011-07-04T22:43:23Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > There are no Americans in this story. Aha! Thanks…hmmm, in that case, for some reason, that tilts my vote even more in favor of MIL is a huge brat. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/192 "2011-07-04T23:16:53Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > No, that looks like standard upper-middle-class partying to me. You completely miss the point. I know it is standard upper middle class partying. The MIL from hell character is not a standard upper middle class party person. She is a total and utter prig with manners out of the 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/193 "2011-07-05T08:40:07Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > You completely miss the point. I know it is standard upper middle class partying. The MIL from hell character is not a standard upper middle class party person. She is a total and utter prig with manners out of the 19th century. Sounds like “aspirational upper middle class” to me. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/194 "2011-07-05T13:14:34Z")
A lot of people have commented on my posts or asked me what the proper thing to do in these circumstances. Well, I can tell you in my family and in my family’s social circles, if you refuse, people just think you’re being polite and will continue putting things on your plate. You usually have to refuse three times if you really don’t want it. And old school people will ask your friends later “Did so-and-so not like the kohlrabi? Because I saw she didn’t take any of it.” But it’s not a huge deal in most families…we’re just very italian in some ways. Food is the way we express our love and our hospitality. So if you didn’t enjoy, something must have been wrong with our hospitality. Myself, I am way laid-back, so if I ask you and you politely say “no” I am inclined to forget about it. They just don’t want you to think they are cheap or don’t want to share foods with you, and yes, I have resisted things I really really hate, but it’s far easier just to take things and then nibble on them and leave them on your plate, although then you get the question of “Didn’t you like X?” Fer example, almonds are a huge deal over there and I really can’t stand almonds, so I just try to avoid anything with almonds in it. But almonds are fairly expensive, so when they offer you them, they are offering their best. Options? There are always at least 5 things so just take more of something else you like, and you can say it. “Oh, no, I don’t want any almond tarts, but you have cashew sweets? I’ll take three.” And then that makes them happy. But even the rudest of Indians wouldn’t write such a letter, I think! 🙂 They tell the person who invited the guest, as it should be. But no, you never bring up your alimentary issues at the table, and if you do, I will think of you as classless or like a child, that canot find another way to indicate that you don’t want some food. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/195 "2011-07-05T13:25:11Z")
That’s quite interesting; to me, “Oh, no thanks - I’m diabetic” is more polite than simply refusing it multiple times without explaining why. The latter gives the implication that the food being offered isn’t up to standard or is otherwise unacceptable, whereas the old “I’d love to, but I can’t” has no judgment on the food at all. Plus, “Would you like a muffin?” “Thank you, they look lovely, but I’m diabetic.” “Oh, how about some sausage then?” takes less time than “Would you like a muffin?” “Oh, no thank you.” “Are you sure? I baked them this morning.” “No thanks, I’m all right.” “I’ll just put them here in case you change your mind.” “Really, I don’t want a muffin.” “All right. Would you like some cake?” “No, thank you.” etc. etc. ad infinitum. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/196 "2011-07-05T13:34:32Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > takes less time than In the culture we’re talking about, when it comes to interpersonal interactions, saving time is not valued as a general principle. They’re going to go through that dance with everyone all the time. You might find that the radio story I linked to in Post No. 113 quite interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/197 "2011-07-05T13:49:28Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > That’s quite interesting; to me, “Oh, no thanks - I’m diabetic” is more polite than simply refusing it multiple times without explaining why. The latter gives the implication that the food being offered isn’t up to standard or is otherwise unacceptable, whereas the old “I’d love to, but I can’t” has no judgment on the food at all. I’m not so much talking about diabetic, or allergic. I am talking about the classless people who say “I can’t eat that, I will spend four hours on the toilet after that.” Or “I can’t eat that, it gives me diahrrea.” Low class, disgusting people who mention toilet habits at the table. Oh, and Ascenray says, saving time??? That’s a Western concept. Asian cultures move slower as a rule, and hospitality is not to be rushed, ever. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/198 "2011-07-05T14:43:04Z")
True conversation: (Or as close as I can recall) A: “I never got my cup of tea!” B: “Well, but she offered you one, and you said ‘No, Thank you.’” C: “In fact, she offered it twice and you said ‘No’ twice.” A: “Well, of course I did, I didn’t want to seem greedy” B&C: “WTF?!?” A: “Americans! You don’t understand anything!” ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/199 "2011-07-05T14:43:33Z")
> [@hermette](#): > > I just wanted to correct this bit - no, she’s not a big deal in the UK, she’s a former nobody, who’s a big deal this week after the email went viral, and will probably go back to being a nobody again when the next funny hits YouTube. > > Until then, let’s laugh at her in [photos of big (under)pants](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2010696/So-Miss-Fancy-Pants--s-correct-way-wear-bloomers-outside-trousers.html) and wonder what on earth gives her the right to criticise anyone else! Has it already been addressed how this e-mail came to be posted online anyway? Was it the daughter-in-law-to-be who put it online? Sorry if I missed it, but I was thinking about this over the weekend, and it also seems in really poor taste to post an e-mail like this, too. I think the future MIL was ridiculously offensive, but it doesn’t strike me as super smart to post a family grievance like this online when you already have bad blood between future relatives (even if they’re not blood relations). ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/200 "2011-07-05T14:47:27Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > True conversation: (Or as close as I can recall) > > A: “I never got my cup of tea!” > > B: “Well, but she offered you one, and you said ‘No, Thank you.’” > > C: “In fact, she offered it twice and you said ‘No’ twice.” > > A: “Well, of course I did, I didn’t want to seem greedy” > > B&C: “WTF?!?” > > A: “Americans! You don’t understand anything!” Yeah, now that I am an adult, I have often just gone, “Yes, I would love a cup of tea.” Mayhap I scandalized some people but I don’t care - I wanted tea. And then I make a big fuss over how good the tea is so they are not offended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457.md?page=11)