# Furious mom sends scolding email to son's fiance re her etiquette lapses. Are her criticisms valid?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [July 1, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457 "2011-07-01T01:07:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Ura-Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ura-Maru)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/141 "2011-07-01T21:43:02Z")
Dear Mother-in-Law to be:
Thank you for your unsolicited advice on how to be a better person. Considering the source, I will give your advice on manners all the consideration they are due. I have discussed the matter with my husband to be, and he agrees it would be best for me to avoid discomforting you with my presence until such a time as I can meet your standards.
On an unrelated note, he’s going to be unable to make his usual Sunday night phone calls. Possibly for quite a while. He apologizes, but his mouth is going to be busy doing something else during that time.
We won’t be bothering you again about the wedding, as we’ve decided to go with a much more modest, personal ceremony. Friends and family only. My fiance’s father should be receiving an invitation soon. If he wishes to bring a . . . companion, please send us a **handwritten** letter requesting it, and we will find somewhere to seat them.
P.S.
Please give your husband my best wishes, and let him know how much I’m looking forward to the day I can call him Father.
P.P.S: I apologize if I used the incorrect salutation. Does marring my soon-to-be husband’s father make you my Mother-in-Law or my Mother-in-Law twice removed? I’d hoped to avoid this question by asking my fiance if he had a loving nickname of some kind for you, but he only laughed bitterly. And looked sad.
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### Author:  [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/142 "2011-07-02T00:08:24Z")
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> Oh yes, that is what they want. Americans often express irritation because when you’re a guest at an Indian person’s house and they offer you something, you’re supposed to refuse, and then they kind of force it on you…it’s a dance. It’s just the culture, though, and it’s silly to take offense.
> (
Wow, I am trippin’ right now. I thought that foreign cultures (yes, in my mind I grouped every damn culture outside of the U.S. into one) had that thing where you were rude as hell if you didn’t accept everything that was offered. Now, I was aware that many cultures have that thing where people respond to your requests with ‘yes’ even when they mean no because they are too ‘polite’ to refuse you, no matter what; but I always thought when something WAS offered, you were rude not to take it.
I have eaten things like goat when I don’t even like to eat any meat at all. And I did that because I thought I would be rude not to accept, since this man was West African and I assumed he would take offense. Now I gotta wonder if I was right about West African custom, also.
Anyways, I am enlightened to hear this, Anaamika. If I ever get a chance to eat some authentic Indian home cooking at someone’s house, I will try to remember the dance.
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### Author:  [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/143 "2011-07-02T00:23:05Z")
I think perhaps different Indians do things differently. The refuse-insist-refuse-insist-take dance, as such, is not something de rigeur at the gatherings I’ve been to (my family is Indian as well). They’re more often just straightforwardly like what you suggested, **Nzinga** ; the host insists on giving food, and one takes it, even if they’d rather not.
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### Author:  [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/144 "2011-07-02T01:07:21Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#):
>
> Really? I hate showing up someplace empty-handed. It makes me feel guilty. Guess that’s my own problem, but still…
No, it’s not just you. I always bring some token with me when I’m visiting someone, whether it just be for dinner or sleeping over. Nothing fancy, but still something. I wasn’t raised to do this (my parents were not big on precise rules of etiquette beyond the major ones like please and thank you). It’s just something I picked up from somewhere and I have always done.
Because I just picked it up from “somewhere”, however, I would never judge someone harshly for not following this custom.
(Getting flashbacks of “Six Degrees of Separation”, when Will Smith’s character is being tutored on high-class etiquette. Bottle of beer.)
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/145 "2011-07-02T01:10:03Z")
> [@jz78817](#):
>
> the “wanna-be upper class” types are even worse.
>
> and I like how people are quoting from guides on manners written in _1915._ I would have hoped by now that we wouldn’t be shackled by social conventions dreamed up by a bunch of sticks-up-their-asses WASPs for the purpose of setting themselves above “those people.”
In case anyone’s interested [this](http://www.bartleby.com/95/25.html) is what Miss Post had to say about houseguest in 1922.
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Interesting glimpse into that snooty world of class and decorum.
>
> Imagine the dressing downs someone like Kate or Princess Diana endured. One fart in the palace ballroom and you’re out of the family.
Actually in a traditional English “great house” breakfast is always a highly informal meal; usually a self serve buffet. Servants weren’t even allowed to set foot in the room unless specifically called for to bring more food or remove an empty serving dish. Married women weren’t even required (or expected to) come down for breakfast _at all_; their breakfasts were sent up on a tray. The Royal family still follows these practices. Missing _lunch_ or a scheduled activity like a hunt is a major faux pas and Diana did get called onto the carpet for that.
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> I’m going with Anaamika on this one, and it might be partially because we’re from a culture in which hosts are not allowed to let their guests’ plates _ever_ be cleaned. So if you ever want to finish eating, you’re going to have to “waste” some food.
>
> Something I heard a lot when growing up (in translation) – “A clean plate means you haven’t eaten enough.”
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#):
>
> Interesting. In mine, a clean plate is a sign of a compliment to the host on the quality of his or her food. A _very_ polite guest would wait to be asked for seconds, while one who wanted to pay even higher compliments would inquire about them…
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> Oh yes, that is what they want. Americans often express irritation because when you’re a guest at an Indian person’s house and they offer you something, you’re supposed to refuse, and then they kind of force it on you…it’s a dance. It’s just the culture, though, and it’s silly to take offense…(
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Well, the way it works in our circles is that the guest is supposed to refuse twice before accepting. If the host gets three refusals, she’s supposed to stop offering that particular thing…
Whether to refuse or not and whether to keep offering after a refusal is a major source of friction between cultures (& even withing the same culture sometimes). It’s usually a given that the host must offer something. Sometimes it’s rude for the guest to decline; othertimes it’s rude for the guest _not_ to decline. Sometimes it’s polite for the host to take the guest at their word, othertimes it’s polite for the host to insist. We’ve all heard the story of the foreign visitors/visitors to a foreign land who ended up starving because they declined every offer of food out of politeness expecting to be offered again only to have their hosts immediately dropped the subject, also out of politeness.
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> After actually reading the article -
>
> I stand corrected. In fact, the article also notes that she’s the step-mother - she’s only been married to his father for 8 years or so. Which means that she’s probably acting out of jealousy and insecurity. After all, here’s a younger and prettier women joining the family; soon she’ll be the mother of her husband’s grandchildren, making her far more important than a mere second wife. I can understand why she’s lashing out.
Just how old is Freddie anyway? If he’s in his mid-20s or later then this woman was probally never “a mother” to him in any meaningful way; why on Earth would anyone expect his bride to view her as a mother figure if he doesn’t? He’s probally never even lived in her house.
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### Author:  [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/146 "2011-07-02T01:35:29Z")
> [@Spoons](#):
>
> Maybe I can shed a little light on this, based on my memories of my Grandmother’s dinner table.
>
> To put it briefly, you never helped yourself at Grandmother’s table. Grandma sat at the head of the table (my Grandfather was not in the picture, having died before I was born), with whatever the entree was before her: a roast, for example. Grandma also had a stack of dinner plates. At the other end of the table, was often my mother or my aunt, with serving dishes of potato and vegetable in front. Grandma would carve the roast, put it on a plate, and it would be passed down to (say) Mom, who would put some potatoes and vegetables on the plate. Then, the plate would be passed to whomever it was destined for, which was done on a strict order of etiquette. To make things more efficient, Grandma would be carving the next serving while the vegetables were being dished up; and for a few minutes, plates would be moving every which way. When Grandma had her meal in front of her, we would begin, as mentioned before.
>
> When Grandma had made it most of the way (if not all) through her meal, she would invite others to have seconds. “Who would like more? Spoons? Spoons-Sis?” Mom would also pick up on this, and say something to the effect of, “There are lots of vegetables and potatoes, too. Spoons [or whoever], would you like some? How about you, Spoons-Dad?” In other words, you were invited to have seconds. If you wanted seconds, you passed your plate down to the server (Grandma or Mom), who would add whatever you wanted to your pate before passing it back. You did not ask for serving dishes to be passed to you, and neither did you (horrors!) reach for them and help yourself.
>
> Antiquated? Extremely formal? Silly? Yes, to all three, especially to us today. But it was what Grandma insisted on. This was proper and correct dinner etiquette in her world, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it was that of the future MIL in the news item we’ve been discussing.
One of my old boyfriends had a family who served dinner in this same way. Luckily his mother was a saint and managed to walk me through it the first time without making me feel small or foolish.
She never assumed I should know their way of serving a meal, but instead approached it as -this is how we do it in our family, and we love you and want you to feel comfortable with us so we’re sharing the rules with you.
As far as mother in laws go she would have been a dream.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/147 "2011-07-02T02:49:41Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#):
>
> …Just how old is Freddie anyway? If he’s in his mid-20s or later then this woman was probally never “a mother” to him in any meaningful way; why on Earth would anyone expect his bride to view her as a mother figure if he doesn’t? He’s probally never even lived in her house.
Okay, that article has all sorts of new info in it since yesterday. In any even Freddie is 29 now; he would’ve been 21 when is father remarried. This woman is not his “mother” in any meaningfull sense and will not be Heidi’s mother-in-law except by a polite social fiction.
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### Author:  [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/148 "2011-07-02T03:08:20Z")
[Here is the full text of the email.](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/british-mother-carolyn-bourne-slammed-nasty-email-future/story?id=13975860&page=3)
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/149 "2011-07-02T04:04:07Z")
> [@Erdosain](#):
>
> If your hot water runs out in 20 minutes, the onus is on you to warn your guests. There was a definitely a shitheel in your situation, but it wasn’t you.
Yeah, but 20 minute showers is a pretty long time if you’re a guest in someone’s house. I’m guessing they didn’t imagine someone would take that long.
What I found amusing was the comment that the girl’s parents should have saved up for her wedding over the years. Who does that anymore?
Maybe the reason she had a diabetic reaction is that the MIL got snippy when she said she didn’t have enough food, hmmm?
(I can only imagine what this bitch would say if I had a seizure!)
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### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/150 "2011-07-02T08:56:36Z")
About the wedding…
Both sets of parents are free to offer what they are comfortable with as a gift meant to make their childrens’ weddings memorable. If the parents have some special requests (wanting a big wedding for cultural reasons, inviting their co-workers or very distant relatives, etc.) they should be ready to cover those expenses.
If the parents don’t want to pay for an entire castle wedding, that’s fine. They can give whatever they planned to give, and the couple can plan whatever wedding the resources available to them allow. There is no excuse for snarking on the girl’s family. Contributions to a wedding are a gift given in goodwill for the sake of bringing joy to the people you are giving it to. They do not involve any third parties.
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### Author:  [@UntouchedTakeaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UntouchedTakeaway)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/151 "2011-07-02T12:58:40Z")
_ **It is high time someone explained to you about good manners. Yours are obvious by their absence and I feel sorry for you. Unfortunately for Freddie, he has fallen in love with you and Freddie being Freddie, I gather it is not easy to reason with him or yet encourage him to consider how he might be able to help you. It may just be possible to get through to you though. I do hope so.** _
She’s not Freddie’s mom - she’s his step-mother of about 8 years. Not her place, really, to write something like this. If she was Freddie’s mother, or a step-mother who had a hand in raising him since young childhood, she’d not be out of place by taking Freddie aside and speaking to him about her issues.
_ **If you want to be accepted by the wider Bourne family I suggest you take some guidance from experts with utmost haste. There are plenty of finishing schools around. Please, for your own good, for Freddie’s sake and for your future involvement with the Bourne family, do something as soon as possible.** _
Snot bucket, much? Again - something that should only have been said to Freddie under circumstances above.
\*\*Here are a few examples of your lack of manners:
\*\*
_ **When you are a guest in another’s house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat – unless you are positively allergic to something.** _
There is a difference between quietly saying “I am not overly fond of kohlrabi” and snapping “Christ, I hate cheese souffles - they make me want to vomit”. Unsure of how the fiancee may have put this across, but it was probably more how she said it vs. what she said.
_ **You do not remark that you do not have enough food. You do not start before everyone else.** _ Agreed. If you don’t have enough food, take a second helping when you’re done. And wait until everyone else starts eating.
* * *
You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host.\*\*\* I consider it a compliment when guests take second helpings of my food, but I guess if she wanted to stretch it, a “may I have some more of that delicious liver loaf?” might be asked first.
_ **When a guest in another’s house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early – you fall in line with house norms.** _ I kind of agree on this, especially if it’s noted that there will be breakfast at 0500 sharp or something like that.
_ **You should have hand-written a card to me. You have never written to thank me when you have stayed.** _ Absolutely agree - especially for the first visit.
_ **You regularly draw attention to yourself. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.** _ Again - a Freddie issue.
_ **No one gets married in a castle unless they own it. It is brash, celebrity style behaviour.** _ Tend to agree.
\*\*\*I understand your parents are unable to contribute very much towards the cost of your wedding. (There is nothing wrong with that except that convention is such that one might presume they would have saved over the years for their daughters’ marriages.) If this is the case, it would be most ladylike and gracious to lower your sights and have a modest wedding as befits both your incomes. \*\*\* Snarky x1000, but she has a point. If you can’t afford the wedding you want, you have the wedding you can afford.
Personally, I think this is never going to end well no matter what anyone does from this point on. Freddie has been forewarned.
UT
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### Author:  [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/152 "2011-07-02T14:52:45Z")
> [@UntouchedTakeaway](#):
>
> There is a difference between quietly saying “I am not overly fond of kohlrabi” and snapping “Christ, I hate cheese souffles - they make me want to vomit”. Unsure of how the fiancee may have put this across, but it was probably more how she said it vs. what she said.
There is also a world of difference between “I am not overly fond of kohlrabi” and “I’m sorry, kohlrabi doesn’t agree with me,” or “I’m sorry, I’m diabetic and can’t eat muffins.” Given the later bitching about the dil making a production about being diabetic and there being some sort of diabetes-related incident on a walk, I’d guess it’s closer to the last option.
And if that’s the case, it’s far more damning of the hostess than the guest. Part of being an adequate host is making reasonable accommodation of your guests’ special needs–a bowl of water for their Seeing Eye dog in your pet-free home, a ground-floor sleeping space for the mobility-impaired when the guest room is upstairs, a pet-hair-free sleeping space for the allergic even when you have pets, a meat-free or low-carb meal for the vegetarian or diabetic. If you can’t or won’t do that, you have no business inviting people to your home.
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### Author:  [@UntouchedTakeaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UntouchedTakeaway)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/153 "2011-07-02T15:44:13Z")
I’m sorry - I didn’t see the part about the diabetes. Absolute the hostess should make all accommodations for that - no question.
> [@CrazyCatLady](#):
>
> There is also a world of difference between “I am not overly fond of kohlrabi” and “I’m sorry, kohlrabi doesn’t agree with me,” or “I’m sorry, I’m diabetic and can’t eat muffins.” Given the later bitching about the dil making a production about being diabetic and there being some sort of diabetes-related incident on a walk, I’d guess it’s closer to the last option.
>
> And if that’s the case, it’s far more damning of the hostess than the guest. Part of being an adequate host is making reasonable accommodation of your guests’ special needs–a bowl of water for their Seeing Eye dog in your pet-free home, a ground-floor sleeping space for the mobility-impaired when the guest room is upstairs, a pet-hair-free sleeping space for the allergic even when you have pets, a meat-free or low-carb meal for the vegetarian or diabetic. If you can’t or won’t do that, you have no business inviting people to your home.
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/154 "2011-07-02T17:25:52Z")
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> Yeah, Ascenray’s right, too. I can’t imagine ever being over an Indian family’s house and not taking at least a smidgen of cauliflower, which I HATE cooked in the Indian style (it looks and smells like nasty old brains, and tastes like rubber cooked in spices. Yuck.)
>
> The smidgen of cauliflower would be what I leave on the plate afterwards to indicate that I am full.
How offensive is it to not take any of a particular dish that you happen to have a problem with? No specifics, just “no thanks, I’ll take a pass on [that one]”, but you’re sampling the rest. I’m thinking of something like Dad’s problem with mushrooms: if he had button mushrooms or anything which had been in contact with them, and drank any wine (never saw him have more than one glass of red with lunch and a smidgen of cognac that lasted the whole afternoon, and the problem only happened in combination with mushrooms), he got “drunk”; dizzy, couldn’t focus, the world swayed. Not an allergy, but enough of a problem to be something he needed to avoid (specially since Mom couldn’t drive).
In my family, when there’s a guest who hasn’t been around before, we apply the principle we call “this is how we play parcheesi _here_”: we explain anything that we know changes from household to household. Dishes placed in the center are “serve yourself”, those (like a roast) which require someone to serve them are “if you want seconds, please do ask”, stuff like that. It’s not so bloody difficult to explain it in a way that’s not offensive and, our choices being mostly a matter of “which way makes logistics easier”, it’s easily explainable when someone finds it strange (“oh, I can take seconds myself if I want them, you don’t need to bother!” “the way we’re tucked in, I’m the only one who can stand without making other people move, it’s fine” “oh, I see”). Oh, and this thread was only the second time I heard of “tilting the soup dish away from you”, that I remember - I do recall an American coworker doing it. On both sides of my family, the rule was “you don’t serve soup to non-family guests and you make sure that children learn to tilt the dish just enough”.
We also ask about meal restrictions in advance and, if possible, check menus with guests who’ll eat in (this means we won’t be serving pasta bolognese to someone who had it the previous day).
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/155 "2011-07-02T17:36:30Z")
As for the points in the email, the only one I’d have a problem with is “starting before everybody else”, but if I knew my guest was a diabetic I’d make sure we weren’t getting her low. Some of the other things sound like they would make Abuelita (the grandma who was “from a good family”) declare anybody expecting them “absolutely uncouth” - and Xavier Castle has been a popular wedding spot since cars first appeared on our roads (heck, back then, any groom who could afford a car had probably attended High School at the Castle, as it was one of the three HSs in the province).
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/156 "2011-07-02T17:37:18Z")
> [@Spoons](#):
>
> _\_ tilt your soup plate away from you, and so on.
I just noticed this. Another rule I’ve never heard of - I had to google it to even figure out what it meant. Definitely not very intuitive.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/157 "2011-07-02T18:42:10Z")
Incredibly crass and rude. One or two of the individual items might be held understandably as privately-reserved judgments (depending on the actual details) but because the e-mail taken as a whole makes it abundantly clear that is author is a gigantic asshole I am inclined to give the young lady the benefit of the doubt and assume that these complaints are blown up out of behaviour that would not be of particular concern to reasonable people.
For example, if I had a house-guest who stayed in bed until 11:45 and just grunted and rolled over when they were gently informed at 10:00 that we would be having Eggs Benedict for breakfast if they would like breakfast, I would not be terribly impressed. Not “Firing off a flame-mail to the new member of the family” unimpressed, but probably “Rolling my eyes in the direction of the others who waited a couple of hours before being served breakfast before we gave up and tucked in” unimpressed.
However, because the e-mail tells us so much more about the author than it does about the recipient, my expectation is that she probably just lazed in bed until 7:00am or so and Mrs. Bourne was offended that she didnèt rise at six.
If I were the son, I would probably be changing my name to Mr. Withers and never speaking to dear mum again. What a bitch.
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### Author:  [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/158 "2011-07-02T22:53:34Z")
No dog in the fight, other than I find bitch mum totally offbase.
I was actually raised with very formal manners [or if you want to put it I didn’t have different at home manners and out to fancy places manners] and one thing I was taught to do was hang back and watch to see how someone else did something if I wasn’t sure about what to do [like some people treat asparagus as a finger food, and others is knife and fork all the way.]
Though we did the fork in the left knife in the right eating, don’t shovel the food obviously [sneakily use the knife to convince the food onto the fork if needed] no sticking of fingers in the mouth, if the gristle went in on a fork, sneak it out of your mouth on the fork or sneak it into the napkin.
Hm, wait until everybody has had a fair shot at the food before going for more, typically ask for seconds.
Politely refuse a food, if it comes already plated simply don’t make a fuss and don’t eat something.
If you have an allergy, make it known before accepting/when accepting an invitation, or if you know you are a later invite, ask if dinner will include something you are allergic to and if it is see if it is in a form that the host can omit [not dressing the dish with a sauce, pulling a serving of salad out before adding mushrooms or whatever ingredient.]
If the food is totally unsuitable you can either bow out politely or find a way to skip the meal or bring something you can eat without being rude about it. [I have had several friends bring over their prepackaged diet plan foods, which are easy enough to heat and plate for them.]
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### Author:  [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/159 "2011-07-02T23:19:38Z")
> [@2gigch1](#):
>
> All in all I am not sure we are reading an email or a well thought out sitcom treatment.
[The sitcom’s been done.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_Up_Appearances) In fact, Mrs Bourne reminded me a lot of Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced as boo-KAY). She’s a pretentious, social-climbing snob.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furious-mom-sends-scolding-email-to-sons-fiance-re-her-etiquette-lapses-are-her-criticisms-valid/587457/160 "2011-07-03T02:15:28Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#):
>
> I don’t know who these people are, either, but surely pointing out your guest’s bad manners is one of those “even if you’re right, you’re wrong” things? I really can’t think of a situation where it wouldn’t be far, far more rude than whatever the other person did in the first place.
Exactly. Making a federal case of a guest’s minor etiquette lapses is a HUGE violation of the rules of etiquette.
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