# Further evidence that DC Metro has no soul. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133 "2005-10-27T06:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/1 "2005-10-27T06:11:21Z")
It’s late, I can’t sleep and my mind won’t turn off. I can’t pick a war I can win tonight so I’ll pick a fight I can’t lose - Wherein I pit Tysons Mall. So I recognize that suburban growth is the reality of most major metro areas in the US and Canada. I recognize that shopping malls have become the social gathering places for the masses for reasons having to do with various conveniences. I, for one, welcome our fashion and consumer retail goods overlords. I love to shop. But if the new restaurant wing expansion to the Tysons (Va) mall is a sign of things to come for the rest of America, then we are in for a fresh new hell. Picture this… Four reasonably good restaurants (table clothes, linen napkins, friendly cheery staff, good wine list, etc…) all with kitchy facades ranging from Italian baroque, to early American, to modern minimalist. All with pretty interesting menu offerings. Arranged, shoulder to shoulder in a horse shoe shape around a central area under a ceiling of glass too high to let in any direct light but the noon sun in July. Into the center descends and ascends an escalator. The names of all the restaurants elude me but they are chain type establishments, one being Coastal Flats, another being Italian, yet another Japanese Fusion, and an American Bistro type place. All quite inviting on their own. Right? So what’s the problem?! Well, it’s this… when I sit in any one I invariably look at two or three of the others, right there across the 100 foot expanse of polished granite. That’s all I see. Every time I’m there. The scenery only changes depending on which restaurant I choose to sit in. That’s it. It’s never sunny outside. Never rainy. Never snowy and cold. Never blistering hot. Never night. Never day. Never but the perfectly controlled, thermos sealed perfection of the FUCKING MALL!!! Christ on stir stick! Who fucking came up with that brilliant plan? Give them a fucking award for service to mankind. :smack: And it’s not just Tysons… though that’s the latest and closest example of this brand of insanity. It’s no wonder you can’t walk 3 block in DC without finding yourself on a deserted stretch of nothing and nowhere. And don’t tell me about DuPont Circle and Adams Morgan. Been there… it’s 5 blocks at best. I’ve got to say, I’ve lived in some premier cities in my life and DC isn’t even rated to be a suburb in farmfuck Saskatchewan. The best thing they could do is at least try to make the suburbs more appealing. But noooo. Just keep adding on to the mall. Why bother with building open air plazas for foot trafic only. Perhaps cobble the streets. Hold regional artist shows and let them sell their crafts on the weekends. Put out a cafe terrace in front of each restaurant in the summers. Let people watch people in their natural habitat from the comfort of their favourite sidewalk cafe. That’s what makes a city great - how usable and welcoming it is to it’s own residents, not how well it isolates you from the elements and the outside world. Yeah, Fairfax gave it a try. Idiots put the parking lot smack in the middle of everything. Lovely view that. Fucking Tysons. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/2 "2005-10-27T06:31:49Z")
The DC Metro area is truly the most soulless vitality-siphoning pit I’ve ever lived in. It’s _amazingly_ soulless - there really is no more appropriate word - the entire area. Those suburbs are atrocious; I worked in Vienna for a year, in one of the office buildings across from Tysons and I seriously felt a little bit suicidal every day while driving through that environment. I’m so glad I left! ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/3 "2005-10-27T07:48:54Z")
I used to live in DC, on Capitol Hill. I loved it. Eminently walkable; people-watching galore; good restaurants, bars, (local), and theaters and music venues (within the District). Outdoor seating at restuarants and bars when appropriate, check. Without a doubt, a world-class city. (Although, admittedly, getting to and from my workplace involved a daily dance with potential mugging, mayhem or murder.) I may have been to Tyson’s Mall _once_ in my life. So why is the OP tarring the entire DC metropolitan area based on one crappy suburban mall? Is it that the crappy suburban malls around DC are somehow crappier than the crappy suburban malls surrounding other US cities? If so (and I honestly wouldn’t know), **Big Fucking Deal**. I’m sorry, but if you eat in restaurants in _malls_ fer Christ’s sake, don’t complain at their lack of sophistication – high prices notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/4 "2005-10-27T10:24:24Z")
Capitol Hill Georgetown Chinatown Clarendon Old Town Alexandria Leesburg Old Town Manassas Middleburg Winchester Fredericksburg THere are some really good walking tours for you - all inside of DC or close to it. I’m sure someone will come along very soon to help me out on the Maryland side. (Of course, living in Virginia, I _never_ go there!) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/5 "2005-10-27T11:15:49Z")
> [@Antonius Block](#): > > I used to live in DC, on Capitol Hill. I loved it. I sued to live in S.F., in Pacific Heights. I loved it. > [@Antonius Block](#): > > Eminently walkable; people-watching galore; good restaurants, bars, (local), and theaters and music venues (within the city limits). Outdoor seating at restuarants and bars when appropriate, check. Absolutely true about S.F. How can you even begin to say this to be true about some postage sized area in D.C? > [@Antonius Block](#): > > Without a doubt, a world-class city. (Although, admittedly, getting to and from my workplace involved a daily dance with potential mugging, mayhem or murder.) Parts of SoMo aside, I never felt unsafe in S.F. > [@Antonius Block](#): > > So why is the OP tarring the entire DC metropolitan area based on one crappy suburban mall? Is it that the crappy suburban malls around DC are somehow crappier than the crappy suburban malls surrounding other US cities? If so (and I honestly wouldn’t know), **Big Fucking Deal**. I’m not pitting the malls. I actually find malls convenient and have said as much. I’m just resenting that they are trying to make malls into something they shouldn’t be. > [@Antonius Block](#): > > I’m sorry, but if you eat in restaurants in _malls_ fer Christ’s sake, don’t complain at their lack of sophistication – high prices notwithstanding. What I expect in a restaurant in a mall is my food served to me quickly and on a tray. Food court fast food. When I linger over a pleasant meal or an afternoon cappucino, I don’t want to stare out the window into a store called Foot Locker. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/6 "2005-10-27T11:17:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I sued to live in S.F., in Pacific Heights. I loved it. “Used” to live… :smack: (I’d sue to live there now if I thought it might work.) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/7 "2005-10-27T11:24:11Z")
Tyson’s? Is that even officially part of the DC Metro area? I mean, even people in Arlington think Tyson’s is too far to visit. I’ve lived in DC since 1998 and I think I’ve been to Tyson’s, like, twice. And one time was because I happened to be near there when the Victoria’s Secret hubbub occurred a few weeks ago. I don’t know where you live, but if you can’t walk three blocks in DC without finding interesting neighborhoods, I have no idea where you’ve been or who showed you around. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/8 "2005-10-27T11:28:47Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Capitol Hill > Georgetown > Chinatown > Clarendon > Old Town Alexandria > Leesburg > Old Town Manassas > Middleburg > Winchester > Fredericksburg Georgetown: Sidewalks are 3 feet wide and not conducive to pedestrian traffic at all. Shopping and restaurants are spread over about 8 linear blocks along M and 3 blocks along Wisconsin. I can walk that in about an hour at my most leisurely stroll. Chinatown: Like every other in every city, dirty and smelly. Clarendon: It’s okay. A “C” effort at best. Old Town: That is nice. A rare and only treat in my opinion. Strong “B”. Everything else is not only not Suburbia… but too far from DC Sububia to be even a consideration for an evening out. Bethesda: Which you probably know, is a “C” effort as well. Just so you know I’m not judging without pespective, I give you some places I’ve lived and which I’m using as a comparisson: Montreal, Toronto, San Francisco and Boston. Christ, even Baltimore is more of a user friendly city than DC. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/9 "2005-10-27T11:33:40Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > I don’t know where you live, but if you can’t walk three blocks in DC without finding interesting neighborhoods, I have no idea where you’ve been or who showed you around. I worked in the city for two years right on the mall. Been to Capitol Hill, Dupont circle and Adams Morgan many times. Short of tiny little enclaves of trendy bars and restaurants, this city is not built/planned to walk around safely after regular business hours. What have I missed? ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/10 "2005-10-27T11:49:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s never sunny outside. Never rainy. Never snowy and cold. Never blistering hot. Never night. Never day. Never but the perfectly controlled, thermos sealed perfection of the FUCKING MALL!!! Well, you can go to that wierd faux small town shopping center (Grand Commons?) in Fairfax. At least they have an REI and a Chipotle so you can always grab some foul weather gear and a decent burrito should the weather take a turn for the worse. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/11 "2005-10-27T11:50:08Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Christ, even Baltimore is more of a user friendly city than DC. I hated Baltimore… until I moved to DC. About the only thing this town has going for it is the Metro, and even that is hopelessly inadequate once you get off the trains and try to use the buses. Takoma Park is a really cool little neighborhood, and chunks of Connecticut and Wisconsin Avenues are pleasant to walk around. Downtown Silver Spring has really done some great things by adding an outdoor mall (shopping sense) with plenty of paths for foot traffic and people-watching. Too many restaurants and not enough retail, though. The biggest problem with DC is that everyone in this town thinks that they are the Most Important Person in the Whole Fucking City. “I’m the Federal Liaison to the Assistant Deputy Undersecretary!” Whoop-di-fuck. Your Hummer sucks up too many of this town’s tiny lanes; drive it back to Chevy Chase, fill it up with $3.50 gas, and go off-roading on the golf course, asshat. Baltimore has Charles Village, Mount Vernon, the Inner Harbor, Towson (?!?!?), Roland Park, and more, all of which are nice walkable neighborhoods, with ample parking. CHARM CITY RULES, HON! ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/12 "2005-10-27T11:54:29Z")
> [@Quicksilver](#): > > Yeah, Fairfax gave it a try. Idiots put the parking lot smack in the middle of everything. Lovely view that. Whoops, I guess you covered that. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/13 "2005-10-27T12:35:50Z")
Why are you talking about the DC Metro as having this ‘suburbia’ problem? As a resident of DC – not Maryland, not NOVA, not Martinsburg (don’t get me started) – but DC, I think it’s pretty lame to attach DC’s name to the horrors of anything along the I-66 corridor. You’re in Northern Virginia, and don’t you forget it. Pitting suburbia for featuring common suburban aspects of life. Wow. I pit thee, water, for being wet! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/14 "2005-10-27T13:04:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Pitting suburbia for featuring common suburban aspects of life. Wow. I pit thee, water, for being wet! I realize that I’m lumping one in with the other but my indignant rage about this godforsaken “greater” metro area burns with the heat of a thousand suns. I recognize that it’s irrational and shrill but I categorically refuse to be reasonable about this. Dammit… windmills must be tilted at every once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/15 "2005-10-27T13:16:46Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Christ, even Baltimore is more of a user friendly city than DC. HOLLA!!! Actually, I don’t agree with that. Everything is a drive in Baltimore, and there’s almost no way to walk from one good neighborhood to another without getting a little sketchy. In DC, I’ve walked from the Mall to Dupont Circle, and that’s a pretty decent walk. Can’t beat the metro either. As for eating in a mall. . .no duh! I can’t believe people would spend money on that food or that experience. ---
**Author:** ![susan\_foster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@susan\_foster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan_foster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/16 "2005-10-27T15:48:46Z")
You had to know, though, going in to the restaurants that you would be getting the view that you got, right? You weren’t expecting the mall to suddenly open up and have little birds twirping in trees while you ate your lunch? I’m sorry, but I just can’t get behind this rant - you went to a mall, and saw stores. Wow. Color me shocked. And why shouldn’t malls have nice restaurants? I love their California Pizza Kitchen. It gives you a nice rest stop, and a time to get energy back. If I get what you’re saying, you think they should have expanded into the open air with the expansion. I’m sorry, but it doesn’t fit with the rest of the existing structure. If you want to rant at Tyson’s, I’ve got one for you. I was stuck trying to leave their parking garage on Saturday. For 1/2 an hour. Susan ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/17 "2005-10-27T16:38:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Georgetown: Sidewalks are 3 feet wide and not conducive to pedestrian traffic at all. Shopping and restaurants are spread over about 8 linear blocks along M and 3 blocks along Wisconsin. I can walk that in about an hour at my most leisurely stroll. Actually, for me the reason that Georgetown sucks is that it contains pretty much the same crappy chain stores and overpriced “boutiques” that you find in any shopping mall. Apart from a bookstore and a teahouse that i like on Wisconsin Avenue, and a couple of small local bakeries and cafes, there’s virtually nothing in Georgetown that you can’t find at the mall. And the bars, some of which could be good, are too crammed full of Georgetown students to be enjoyable. > [@Trunk](#): > > Actually, I don’t agree with that. Everything is a drive in Baltimore, and there’s almost no way to walk from one good neighborhood to another without getting a little sketchy. Yeah, you really do need a car to make the most of Baltimore. Sure, it’s safe and convenient enough to walk around the Inner Harbor and Federal Hill, and across to Fell’s Point, but these areas get old pretty quickly, especially the Inner Harbor with its ESPN Zone and other crappy establishments. ---
**Author:** ![Obsidian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@Obsidian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obsidian)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/18 "2005-10-27T16:48:32Z")
You think DC is souless because you’ve lived in San Francisco, a city whose soul dresses in bright orange and wanders the streets, whapping tourists over the head to make sure they notice. You like San Francisco. You will return to San Francisco. That hill’s not nearly as bad as it looks, and you don’t really need your clutch anyway. I’m from suburban New Jersey, if you want to have a conversation about souless malls I can best you any day. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/19 "2005-10-27T16:53:23Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > “Used” to live… :smack: (I’d sue to live there now if I thought it might work.) I figured that was the only possible way to get enough money to buy a house or condo there ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133/20 "2005-10-27T17:09:33Z")
Counterfactuallest. Pitting. Ever. –Cliffy [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/further-evidence-that-dc-metro-has-no-soul/328133.md?page=2)