# Furthest fall to evil **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643 "2014-10-18T01:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/21 "2014-10-20T00:39:15Z")
Somewhat of the same sort as Mugabe was [Jean-Bertrand Aristide](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bertrand_Aristide) of Haiti. When he first came in there were hopes that he could turn Haiti around. But after a while political infighting and corruption took hold again (although never as bad as under the Duvaliers and the military regimes that replaced them). ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/22 "2014-10-20T00:48:08Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > He really thought Chinese were that much better than the rest of us? Wow, he really was far ahead of his time. 😉 This is one of the [most popular TV shows in Taiwan,](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%E9%92%BB%E7%9F%B3%E5%A4%9C%E6%80%BB%E4%BC%9A) you’ll quickly realise every nation is as genetically stupid as the next. > [@Smapti](#): > > I believe you misspelled “Romney” up there. I believe you misspelled \ up there > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I came in to nominate Mugabe, and found that the second response nailed him. Gotta love the Dope. In the coffee group at work most folks have never even heard of Mugabe. Some have only the foggiest idea who Mandela was. A prolific tibetan religious painter? Seriously though, I am way too young to remember Mugabe as a good man. How old are your collegues? I’m in my late twenties. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/23 "2014-10-20T00:49:15Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > A patriotic young corporal decorated for valour (Iron Cross, First Class). > > [Civil rights lawyer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps#Civil_rights_cases), opponent of Jim Crow laws in the '60s and proponent of the separation of church and state. Perfect post. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/24 "2014-10-20T01:31:10Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > I was recently listening to a podcast about Fritz Haber, who won the Nobel prize for synthesizing ammonia, used in fertilizer among other things. Apparently half the world’s current population depends on his ammonia method for producing fertilizer. > > He later pioneered work weaponizing chlorine gas and other chemical weapons, before founding the Degesch Corporation, which later developed Zyklon-B to gas millions during the Holocaust. I don’t think he personally personally had much to do with Zyklon-B besides chairing the company responsible. \It’s not correct to say Zyklon-B was developed for that – it had been developed about 20 years earlier, and was sold as a useful pesticide, when the Nazi’s decided to use it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/25 "2014-10-20T01:37:48Z")
> [@Slowki](#): > > Bill Gates. Damnit Bill, stop helping people in Africa and fix your goddam OS! I know you jest, but since 2006 Bill left the day-to-day operations at Microsoft. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/26 "2014-10-20T01:53:59Z")
As for a candidate of a good guy that ended breaking horribly bad, I have to mention Dr. Seitz. He was once a great physicist and once was the president of the National Academy of Sciences. But after he retired he worked hard and diligently to soil his past legacy, first by overseeing research work made by the tobacco companies that somehow **never** found that cigarettes were harmful to human health, and then later jumping with no effort from being a denier of tobacco causing cancer to a denier of the effects of CO2 in the atmosphere, with the support of the fossil fuel companies. His worst behaviour was seen when he offered his name to a petition that fraudulent looked like a published scientific paper to spread doubt on the subject. > **[Dr Frederick Seitz – Climate Denial Crock of the Week](https://climatecrocks.com/tag/dr-frederick-seitz/)** > > Posts about Dr Frederick Seitz written by greenman3610 Just for the tobacco thing alone his effort at spreading doubts made possible the denial that caused thousands of people to die in greater numbers than what a dictator in Africa could take claim. ([And then there are the deaths that are likely to be added by the relative inaction on controlling our emissions.](http://www.who.int/heli/risks/climate/climatechange/en/)) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/27 "2014-10-20T02:35:14Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > I am way too young to remember Mugabe as a good man. How old are your collegues? I’m in my late twenties. He was a “good man” in the sense that he was a leader of the struggle against the white minority rule in what was then Rhodesia. Funny how Marxist revolutionaries are considered saints while they’re opposing oppressive regimes, and then people are somehow astonished at what they do once they gain power. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/28 "2014-10-20T02:48:50Z")
Lucifer. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/29 "2014-10-20T03:22:26Z")
O.J. Simpson. I can remember when he was a popular athlete and likeable actor. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/30 "2014-10-20T04:44:15Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > He was a “good man” in the sense that he was a leader of the struggle against the white minority rule in what was then Rhodesia. Funny how Marxist revolutionaries are considered saints while they’re opposing oppressive regimes, and then people are somehow astonished at what they do once they gain power. Remember when Wally was given a promotion, and Dilbert read the memo from Wally, and said “This smacks of abuse of power.” Wally responded “Why else would anybody want power?” ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/31 "2014-10-20T04:51:13Z")
Joe Paterno. It started out being about the kids. Then it ended up being about the kids. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/32 "2014-10-20T14:05:43Z")
I recall Mugabe was considered to be a dangerous thug long before he got into power. He just was not quite as bad as some other the other leaders - especially some of those in Angola - but he learned a little bit and grew into it. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/33 "2014-10-20T17:31:37Z")
Walter White, from Breaking Bad. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/34 "2014-10-20T17:34:04Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Walter White, from Breaking Bad. The OP rules out fictional characters. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/35 "2014-10-20T17:57:27Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > A patriotic young corporal decorated for valour (Iron Cross, First Class). Who stood out for his wholesome and healthy habits–unlike the overwhelming majority of his colleagues, he didn’t smoke, drink, whore, or even eat meat. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/36 "2014-10-20T19:32:27Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The OP rules out fictional characters. Which was really a very evil thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/37 "2014-10-20T19:54:54Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Jesus and/or Mohammed. > > For 33 years /65 years respectively, not so bad. > > For the next two millenia, they both have terrorized and divided the world. Kind of hard to do, given that they’re both long dead. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/38 "2014-10-20T20:11:07Z")
Saruman the White, falling from grace to become Sharkey. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/39 "2014-10-20T20:26:29Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > \It’s not correct to say Zyklon-B was developed for that – it had been developed about 20 years earlier, and was sold as a useful pesticide, when the Nazi’s decided to use it. Right- it was a cyanide based pesticide which meant that it was rather toxic to people. It was even used in the US at times. Haber’s process is one of those things that’s so fundamental that it’s a precursor to so many things, both good and evil. For example, billions of people rely on crops fertilized by nitrogen produced through his process. At the same time, his process extended WWI by much longer, due to the Germans’ lack of need for guano, which was the common source of nitrogen for munitions at the time. In addition, during WWII, it was instrumental in helping German synthetic fuel programs work efficiently. I wouldn’t call him “evil” any more than I’d call Charles Kettering or Thomas Midgely “evil” for solving the problems put before them, even if the effects turned out to be regrettable. Evil’s all in the intent, you know, and quackery, lunacy and just scientific discoveries with unforeseen consequences don’t make one evil. And neither does stuff like weapons research, if you’re not doing it for the kicks of killing and maiming people and/or destroying their stuff. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/40 "2014-10-20T20:47:41Z")
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