# Furthest fall to evil **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643 "2014-10-18T01:03:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/41 "2014-10-20T21:16:35Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As for a candidate of a good guy that ended breaking horribly bad, I have to mention Dr. Seitz. > > He was once a great physicist and once was the president of the National Academy of Sciences. > > But after he retired he worked hard and diligently to soil his past legacy, first by overseeing research work made by the tobacco companies that somehow **never** found that cigarettes were harmful to human health, and then later jumping with no effort from being a denier of tobacco causing cancer to a denier of the effects of CO2 in the atmosphere, with the support of the fossil fuel companies. > > His worst behaviour was seen when he offered his name to a petition that fraudulent looked like a published scientific paper to spread doubt on the subject. > > [Dr Frederick Seitz – This is Not Cool](http://climatecrocks.com/tag/dr-frederick-seitz/) > > Just for the tobacco thing alone his effort at spreading doubts made possible the denial that caused thousands of people to die in greater numbers than what a dictator in Africa could take claim. ([And then there are the deaths that are likely to be added by the relative inaction on controlling our emissions.](http://www.who.int/heli/risks/climate/climatechange/en/)) R.A. Fisher (one of the greatest statisticians, geneticists and evolutionary biologists of the last century) was a diehard opponent of the ‘tobacco causes cancer’ claim, too. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/42 "2014-10-20T21:18:31Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Google. How is Google evil? ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/43 "2014-10-20T22:05:13Z")
A bright young medical student with a deep love for art, philosophy and music. Graduated cum laude, and was noted for having remarkable verbal skills and being able to simplify complex ideas to audiences. Described as friendly, handsome, and patriotic, and well-liked by friends and colleagues. And then . . . [Well . . .](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/44 "2014-10-20T22:27:16Z")
A respected doctor who worked to fight malaria, typhus, yaws, and other tropical diseases among the poor in his impoverished homeland, who affectionately called him [Papa Doc.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Duvalier) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/45 "2014-10-22T14:43:55Z")
What about Albert Einstein? A respected physicist who went to work on the Manhattan Project. And unlike some other people on this list, there was never any doubt as to what they were working on: a weapon of mass destruction. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/46 "2014-10-22T15:08:43Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > What about Albert Einstein? A respected physicist who went to work on the Manhattan Project. And unlike some other people on this list, there was never any doubt as to what they were working on: a weapon of mass destruction. Einstein didn’t work on the Manhattan Project. At least not directly. He reluctantly signed a letter that might have helped lead to it’s inception. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/47 "2014-10-22T17:26:50Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > Einstein didn’t work on the Manhattan Project. At least not directly. He reluctantly signed a letter that might have helped lead to it’s inception. …at least partly motivated, if I’m remembering correctly, by the fear that the Nazis might develop nuclear weapons first, and that that would be Bad. Even those who worked directly on the bomb don’t automatically get stamped Evil, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/48 "2014-10-22T17:39:57Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The OP rules out fictional characters. I thought that show was a documentary. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/49 "2014-10-22T17:43:59Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I thought that show was a documentary. Manhattan? No, it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/50 "2014-10-22T18:09:18Z")
As a child, he was so beloved by his people that the mere sight of him wearing his adorable little army boots stopped a serious mutiny … so he got the nickname “little boots” … > **[Caligula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caligula)** > > Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (31 August 12 – 24 January 41), better known by his nickname Caligula (/kəˈlɪɡjʊlə/), was Roman emperor from AD 37 until his assassination in AD 41. He was the son of the Roman general Germanicus and Augustus' granddaughter Agrippina the Elder, members of the first ruling family of the Roman Empire. He was born two years before Tiberius was made emperor. Gaius accompanied his father, mother and siblings on campaign in Germania, at little more than four or five y... … and when he became emperor, his first few months were, allegedly, just fine. > [@](#): > > Caligula accepted the powers of the Principate as conferred by the Senate and entered Rome on 28 March amid a crowd that hailed him as “our baby” and “our star,” among other nicknames.[27] Caligula is described as the first emperor who was admired by everyone in “all the world, from the rising to the setting sun.”[28] Caligula was loved by many for being the beloved son of the popular Germanicus,[27] and because he was not Tiberius.[29] It was said by Suetonius that over 160,000 animals were sacrificed during three months of public rejoicing to usher in the new reign.[30][31] Philo describes the first seven months of Caligula’s reign as completely blissful.[32] Only after a serious illness, his personality appeared to completely change, and he became (allegedly) a monster of cruelty and degeneracy. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/51 "2014-10-22T18:28:07Z")
I have to say that this thread is an education, its for stuff like this that I read the Straightdope. > [@bump](#): > > And neither does stuff like weapons research, if you’re not doing it for the kicks of killing and maiming people and/or destroying their stuff. That’s worth a thread in itself, surely working on weapons is at least morally questionable, how can you completely divorce your work from the possible end consequences? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/52 "2014-10-22T19:02:08Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > That’s worth a thread in itself, surely working on weapons is at least morally questionable, how can you completely divorce your work from the possible end consequences? Newer and better weapons are frequently necessary to defeat evil regimes. Furthermore, most weapons technology has non-military applications, and vice versa. To take the obvious example, the Manhattan Project was a precursor to nuclear power as well as nuclear weapons. Nuclear power has never lived up to its promise as a cheap and renewable energy source, but that could not have been known at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/53 "2014-10-22T19:28:06Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > …at least partly motivated, if I’m remembering correctly, by the fear that the Nazis might develop nuclear weapons first, and that that would be Bad. Even those who worked directly on the bomb don’t automatically get stamped Evil, IMHO. Completely motivated by that fear. Einstein said afterwards, in an interview with Newsweek, that had he known the Nazis would not complete an atomic bomb, he would not have written the letter, and would have done nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/54 "2014-10-22T19:38:10Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > Einstein said afterwards, in an interview with Newsweek, that had he known the Nazis would not complete an atomic bomb, he would not have written the letter, and would have done nothing. A nit: Leo Szilard wrote the letter. All Einstein did was sign it. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643/55 "2014-10-23T19:27:36Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > That’s worth a thread in itself, surely working on weapons is at least morally questionable, how can you completely divorce your work from the possible end consequences? I was thinking more along the lines of WWII R&D scientists working on improved planes and missiles during the war, and of Cold War scientists developing weapons for deterrence-effect. I doubt any but a teeny-tiny few were doing it because they got a kick out of developing weapons and liked the idea that their work would cause death and destruction. If any of them were working for a cause, it was to defend the US/USSR against their perceived enemies, which is a noble cause and not evil. A lot likely did it because it paid well and the noble part was secondary. Put more succinctly, the guy working at the handgun factory could just as easily tell himself he’s making weapons to keep the peace for law enforcement as he is for thugs to rob and rape people. That guy making them for cops isnt’ doing anything evil in my book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/furthest-fall-to-evil/701643.md?page=2)