# Future Cellmates for Bernie Madoff **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501 "2009-01-09T06:36:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/1 "2009-01-09T06:36:47Z")
[Another ponzi scheme comes to light.](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123146543612166835.html?mod=googlenews_wsj) > [@](#): > > The Commodity Futures Trading Commission and the Securities and Exchange Commission brought civil charges against a Pennsylvania man accused of running a $50 million Ponzi scheme since at least February 1995. Authorities said in a complaint Thursday that Joseph S. Forte, of Broomall, Pa., turned himself in to authorities in December and signed a confession with the U.S. postal inspector after his alleged Ponzi scheme fell apart. No criminal charges have been filed at this point. The charges against Mr. Forte come at a time when Ponzi schemes are at the center of attention after Bernard L. Madoff was arrested for allegedly operating a Ponzi scheme that may have cost investors more than $50 billion. He managed to evade regulators for at least a decade. [And another.](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aELIfH1r.knc&refer=home) > [@](#): > > U.S. prosecutors and market regulators accused a Buffalo, New York-area investment adviser of operating a Ponzi scheme that targeted Catholics, including priests. Richard Piccoli, 82, was charged with mail fraud at federal court in Buffalo, U.S. Attorney Terrance Flynn said today in a statement. Piccoli placed advertisements in Catholic newspapers across the country while raising at least $17 million since 2004, according to the statement. The marketing materials claimed “seniors and clergy are absolutely pleased” with the firm’s returns and lack of fees, the Securities and Exchange Commission said in a civil lawsuit naming him and his firm, Gen-See Capital Corp. “Investors’ funds are not, however, invested in anything,” the SEC said. [Madoff seems to be an unrepentant sort of prick.](http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKTRE5064KJ20090108) > [@](#): > > In a hearing on Monday and in court papers on Wednesday, prosecutors said Madoff and his wife mailed more than $1 million worth of jewellery and watches to friends and family in late December in violation of a December 18 court order freezing his assets. It said his lawyers’ brief to the court on Wednesday failed to mention part of the December 11 criminal complaint in which Madoff was quoted as saying he wanted to transfer $200 million to $300 million of the remaining investors’ assets to selected family and friends. “In fact, when the defendant’s office desk was searched, investigators found approximately 100 signed cheques totalling more than approximately $173 million, ready to be sent out,” the government’s brief to the judge on Thursday said. Can we start shooting these fuckers, yet? Or do we have to wait a little bit longer? Yeah, yeah, yeah, murder’s wrong, human life is sacred, blah, blah, blah. Fuck it. Pricks like these guys are goddamn plague infested rats and need to be killed for the benefit of humanity. We should not merely string them up from lamp posts, but they should be given a [blood eagle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle), their corpses preserved using [plastination](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastination), and they should be permanently mounted in front of every business school as a stark reminder of what happens when you fuck up big time. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/2 "2009-01-09T06:49:55Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > We should not merely string them up from lamp posts, but they should be given a [blood eagle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle), their corpses preserved using [plastination](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastination), and they should be permanently mounted in front of every business school as a stark reminder of what happens when you fuck up big time. I applaud, if not your goals, as worthy as they may seem, at least your creativity. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/3 "2009-01-09T08:36:47Z")
What should be done with managers of “Fund of Funds”, which were given big fees (1% +) to exercise due diligence and redirect money to serious investment firms? Fairfield Greenwich Group may have even been a front operation. “Fairfield promised its investors that money could not be moved from its accounts with Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities without two signatures. It said that it would independently calculate the value of the funds it invested at Mr. Madoff’s firm at least once a week. It promised to reconcile statements from individual trades with Mr. Madoff’s custodial records.” [IMHO only, they lied](http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/150442/Madoff-Scheme-Tightens-Noose-on-Fund-of-Funds). But setting aside cases of outright fraud, I think multi-billion dollar incompetence should be punished with jail time as well. I mean jeez, Madoff’s accounting firm was a joke: it had a total of 3 employees, 2 principles and a secretary. Kudos to Aksia LLC, who steered their clients away from Madoff and provided the press with an example of how due diligence is suppose to work. Incidentally, does anybody know why Barry M. hasn’t skipped bail yet? I mean he has to have millions tucked away in a few Swiss banks and his so-called security guards have been hired by his wife. Why isn’t he sunning in Bali by now? ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/4 "2009-01-09T10:39:10Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > We should not merely string them up from lamp posts, but they should be given a [blood eagle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle), their corpses preserved using [plastination](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastination), and they should be permanently mounted in front of every business school as a stark reminder of what happens when you fuck up big time. Why execution? Why release his mortal soul from earthly misery? I suggest something more long-lasting and painful, like Chinese Water Torture or [Death By 1,000 Cuts.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_thousand_cuts) On second thought, forget torture. Make Madoff work off his debt by flipping burgers at Jack-in-the-Box, @ $7.25/hour, 12 hours per day, every day. Use black magick rituals to prolong his life (by my calculation it will take 1,574,555 years, unless he asks for a raise) and there you have it, his own perfect karmic hell. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/5 "2009-01-09T12:57:43Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > On second thought, forget torture. Make Madoff work off his debt by flipping burgers at Jack-in-the-Box, @ $7.25/hour, 12 hours per day, every day. Use black magick rituals to prolong his life (by my calculation it will take 1,574,555 years, unless he asks for a raise) and there you have it, his own perfect karmic hell. While the above carries a certain visceral satisfaction to it, I must ask why, if we have access to black magick rituals, that actually work, why don’t we use them to restore the lost money? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/6 "2009-01-09T14:29:22Z")
What Measure for Measure said- why is Madoff in jail, while “real” executives who are just as culpable for losing investors’ money are out spending their severance packages? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/7 "2009-01-09T14:39:17Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > While the above carries a certain visceral satisfaction to it, I must ask why, if we have access to black magick rituals, that actually work, why don’t we use them to restore the lost money? Isn’t that basically what various governments around the world have been doing by propping up the various financial institutions… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/8 "2009-01-09T14:47:58Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > …On second thought, forget torture. Make Madoff work off his debt by flipping burgers at … He should have to do this standing naked in the front window of a Wall street fast food place. Not only for the humiliation, but for the pain of having little grease burns every few seconds as they sizzle and pop and spatter. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/9 "2009-01-09T15:18:49Z")
Naked. On display for innocent passersby. You would be designating a section of sidewalk as a mandatory vomitorium. Rethink. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/10 "2009-01-09T16:50:32Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > On second thought, forget torture. Make Madoff work off his debt by flipping burgers at Jack-in-the-Box Why not the best of both? He works flipping burgers, but he has to carve the burger meat out of his own body. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/11 "2009-01-09T17:20:50Z")
I agree-don’t put madoff in jail-just strip him of all his assets-make him work at Home Depot for 11.00/hour-and have him wear a sign around his neck saying" "I am a thief-I stole 10 billion" ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/12 "2009-01-09T18:35:24Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Why execution? Why release his mortal soul from earthly misery? I suggest something more long-lasting and painful, like Chinese Water Torture or [Death By 1,000 Cuts.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_thousand_cuts) > > On second thought, forget torture. Make Madoff work off his debt by flipping burgers at Jack-in-the-Box, @ $7.25/hour, 12 hours per day, every day. Use black magick rituals to prolong his life (by my calculation it will take 1,574,555 years, unless he asks for a raise) and there you have it, his own perfect karmic hell. First of all, so long as Madoff’s alive _he’ll_ be thinking, “I can get myself out of this, I just have to come up with a good plan.” He’ll be running _some_ kind of scam out of his kitchen, skimming a little meat, grease, or whatever, trying to sell it on the side. Secondly, the wanna-be Madoffs will come to him for advice, they’ll ask them what he did wrong, and figure that they’ll use his “wisdom” so they can pull similar stunts and _not_ get caught. They might even give him kickbacks for his advice (he’ll probably demand it). Lets face it, if a Columbian drug lord can run his own empire from _inside_ a cushy prison (which _he_ built), Madoff can do something similar from inside a fast food joint. You **kill** them, and their last moments are filled with suffering, with no delusions that they were “on the verge of getting themselves out of this mess.” Additionally, and, IMHO the _more_ important reason to do this, people will see his preserved flayed corpse and think, “Jesus fuck! That bastard screwed up! No _way_ do I want to end up like him!” It bypasses the intellectual centers of the brain and goes right for the reptile part, they _can’t_ console themselves thinking that once he got out of prison he lived confortably on his hidden billions. (How’s old Ivan Boesky doing these days?) In stark terms, its illustrated that **he** paid the ultimate price for his crimes, and that anyone who tries to follow in his footsteps will suffer the same price. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/13 "2009-01-09T18:49:53Z")
EXACTLY! What he just said. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/14 "2009-01-10T21:02:29Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Additionally, and, IMHO the _more_ important reason to do this, people will see his preserved flayed corpse and think, “Jesus fuck! That bastard screwed up! No _way_ do I want to end up like him!” It bypasses the intellectual centers of the brain and goes right for the reptile part, they _can’t_ console themselves thinking that once he got out of prison he lived comfortably on his hidden billions. (How’s old Ivan Boesky doing these days?) In stark terms, its illustrated that **he** paid the ultimate price for his crimes, and that anyone who tries to follow in his footsteps will suffer the same price. That will work for some, but not for others. ## Working for some: a good thing. More seriously, we really and truly need better enforcement from both the private and public sectors. We also need to set up a financial structure that takes into account the ebb and flow of public regulation: there will always be jackass administrations who take [chainsaws to regulation books](http://www.papolicyblog.com/pablog/chainsaw.jpg). Still more seriously, I don’t see why public shaming shouldn’t play a more active role. But if we go that route, we should distinguish between: a) those who should feel shame because they are dishonest (Madoff and to a lesser extent Boesky), b) those who should feel shame because they are self-serving and delusional (arguably Michael Milken) c) those who should feel shame because they were insufficiently honest (Milken again and Henry Blodget) d) those who should feel shame because they were incompetent stewards of the public trust and treasure (Xerox CEO Rick Thoman, participants in the various banking imbroglios that occur every several years) e) those who were IMO criminally incompetent (possibly Nick Leeson of Barings) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/15 "2009-01-10T23:06:23Z")
> [@](#): > > We should not merely string them up from lamp posts, but they should be given a blood eagle, their corpses preserved using plastination, and they should be permanently mounted in front of every business school as a stark reminder of what happens when you fuck up big time. No. Preserve them in giant bell jars, until their corpses dry out, as per _Girl Genius_. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/16 "2009-01-10T23:23:48Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > While the above carries a certain visceral satisfaction to it, I must ask why, if we have access to black magick rituals, that actually work, why don’t we use them to restore the lost money? Because “restoring” the money would require taking it back from innocent third parties to whom Madoff gave it when he spent it? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/17 "2009-01-11T00:00:35Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Can we start shooting these fuckers, yet? Or do we have to wait a little bit longer? > > Yeah, yeah, yeah, murder’s wrong, human life is sacred, blah, blah, blah. Fuck it. Pricks like these guys are goddamn plague infested rats and need to be killed for the benefit of humanity. We should not merely string them up from lamp posts, but they should be given a [blood eagle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle), their corpses preserved using [plastination](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastination), and they should be permanently mounted in front of every business school as a stark reminder of what happens when you fuck up big time. Whilst I understand your sentiments, I’d like to point out that a lot of Madoff’s victims were greedy rich people who should have known something was wrong (you can’t earn the interest he was offering safely). More importantly, compare the money stolen to the Bush Government’s invasion of Iraq. Far more money completely wasted (and all of it belonging to taxpayers), plus thousands of Allied lives lost. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/18 "2009-01-11T00:05:22Z")
> [@glee](#): > > More importantly, compare the money stolen to the Bush Government’s invasion of Iraq. Far more money completely wasted (and all of it belonging to taxpayers), plus thousands of Allied lives lost. I have no objection to applying the blood-eagle there . . . ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/19 "2009-01-11T03:01:59Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I agree-don’t put madoff in jail-just strip him of all his assets-make him work at Home Depot for 11.00/hour-and have him wear a sign around his neck saying" "I am a thief-I stole 10 billion" To be fair, he didn’t _steal_ anything. He fooled people into giving him their money by claiming to have a foolproof get-rich-quick investment scheme. Nearly all of those people were wealthy and had accountants, financial advisors, and so on- and should have known better, but didn’t. So, I don’t really have that much sympathy for them. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/20 "2009-01-11T03:16:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > To be fair, he didn’t _steal_ anything. He fooled people into giving him their money by claiming to have a foolproof get-rich-quick investment scheme. > > Nearly all of those people were wealthy and had accountants, financial advisers, and so on- and should have known better, but didn’t. > > So, I don’t really have that much sympathy for them. Actually, it was being sold as a safe investment: 10% per annum. Compare that to stock market returns which can be 20-30% during a good year. (That was the twist actually: the investment wasn’t “Too good to be true.” Rather it was too safe to be true.) The victims did not exhibit unusual stupidity in this case IMHO. Their high-paid advisers however were simply not doing their jobs. And the SEC certainly fumbled the ball. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501.md?page=2)