# Future Cellmates for Bernie Madoff **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501 "2009-01-09T06:36:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/21 "2009-01-11T03:26:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, it was being sold as a safe investment: 10% per annum. Compare that to stock market returns which can be 20-30% during a good year. Do you have a cite for that? The lure of [investing in] Ponzi schemes is the excellent short-term return, not long-term security. Of course, people don’t know they’re investing in Ponzi schemes, just that Big Fake Investment Group is offering huge early returns. Here’s an interesting quandary: some of Madoff’s investors actually came out well ahead, having cashed out a portion of the early returns. Now they can’t figure out what the hell to do, since they’re theoretically “owed” large sums of money, but actually made a profit on their original investment: [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090109/ap\_on\_bi\_ge/madoff\_false\_profits](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090109/ap_on_bi_ge/madoff_false_profits) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/22 "2009-01-11T05:21:38Z")
Most of my, er, FORMER customers lived in Palm Beach. He may have beggared them and, therefore, me. Fuck him sideways. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/23 "2009-01-11T05:43:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? The lure of [investing in] Ponzi schemes is the excellent short-term return, not long-term security. Of course, people don’t know they’re investing in Ponzi schemes, just that Big Fake Investment Group is offering huge early returns. That’s just it, Madoff’s version had a few innovations. He promised 12% year-in year-out returns, which are not huge, though a saavy investor would find such a high returns implausible in a supposedly safe investment. [http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/29/news/newsmakers/zuckoff\_madoff.fortune/](http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/29/news/newsmakers/zuckoff_madoff.fortune/) He turned some investors away, which gave his group some mystique. He was a well-healed socialite, and very generous with charities, who returned the favor by placing their portfolios with this nice man. Incidentally, at least 15 investment firms took fat fees from their clients for the service of simply passing on money to Bernie. [http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a0TEG4yetMg4&refer=us](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a0TEG4yetMg4&refer=us) There’s also the matter of Bernie’s coworkers, many of them relatives, who of course knew of absolutely no wrongdoing. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/24 "2009-01-11T07:05:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > To be fair, he didn’t _steal_ anything. He fooled people into giving him their money by claiming to have a foolproof get-rich-quick investment scheme. > > Nearly all of those people were wealthy and had accountants, financial advisors, and so on- and should have known better, but didn’t. > > So, I don’t really have that much sympathy for them. What about the non-profits (at least some of whom _didn’t_ know their money was going to Madoff)? Not only are _they_ screwd (and IIRC some of them are now defunct because of this), but the people they helped (you know, the poor, etc.) are now fucked. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/25 "2009-01-11T09:19:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **kaylasdad99** > > While the above carries a certain visceral satisfaction to it, I must ask why, if we have access to black magick rituals, that actually work, why don’t we use them to restore the lost money? > > Because “restoring” the money would require taking it back from innocent third parties to whom Madoff gave it when he spent it? What kind of lame-o black magick rituals can keep a man alive for a million years, but are inadequate to the task of conjuring up money from nowhere at all? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/26 "2009-01-11T18:47:13Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > What about the non-profits (at least some of whom _didn’t_ know their money was going to Madoff)? Not only are _they_ screwd (and IIRC some of them are now defunct because of this), but the people they helped (you know, the poor, etc.) are now fucked. I was only referring to the wealthy folks who Madoff personally tricked into investing with him. Obviously, the rank-and-file and corporations who invested with hedge funds that bought Madoff’s securities are a different case. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501/27 "2009-01-12T22:22:12Z")
[Bernie “I violate terms of my bail by mailing millions of dollars to family members” Madoff, gets to remain free.](http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE50B40L20090112?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews) > [@](#): > > Accused swindler Bernard Madoff will be allowed to stay in his Manhattan apartment under house arrest, a U.S. judge ruled on Monday, rejecting a government request to throw him in jail. > > The ruling gives Madoff, who has become one of the most vilified figures in America, more time in his $7 million home before he pleads guilty or goes to trial, as authorities probe a $50 billion investment fraud to which they say he confessed a month ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-cellmates-for-bernie-madoff/480501.md?page=1)