[QUOTE=Caffeine.addict]
Do a lot of people in Basque country speak Basque to the exclusion of Spanish?
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Pretty much nobody, although you do run into people for whom it’s clear that their first language is Basque. You realize that they speak Spanish As A Foreign Language; it isn’t just “a strong influence” but they’re pretty much translating word-by-word sometimes. Their phonetics are correct, their grammar is funny.
Catalans have a huge advantage over Basque in that any Spanish-speaker who’s washed his ears can understand most Catalan after hearing it for a short while. So, Catalans can afford to be impolite and speak in Catalan while you speak Spanish (*). A Basque who did the same would be unable to communicate.
This is where “el Seny” (common sense, business sense) fights “la Rauxa” (spirit, wildness): those Catalans with more Seny than Rauxa know when switching to Spanish will garner them further business, and do switch. Those who don’t… lose business and wonder why.
[QUOTE=Excalibre]
But I don’t consider that “overwhelming”. That’s precisely why I drew a distinction between a “majority” and an “overwhelming majority”. Even within the relatively small Catalan-speaking area, not everyone speaks the language. I know that Catalan nationalists have made great strides in encouraging use of Catalan, and I applaud them for it, but I have my doubts as to whether this situation, with only 60% or so of the population speaking the language, can remain stable over time.
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The numbers are growing steadily. See previous post about Seny and Rauxa. In Barcelona or along the coast, “outsiders” are expected, therefore Spanish is often used first with people you don’t know. In places where outsiders aren’t common, Catalan is used first.
Come to Navarra, and most people soften their accent when adressing for the first time someone they don’t know (I’m just talking about Navarrese Spanish vs Standard Spanish, here). It’s just polite.
[QUOTE=Excalibre]
That’s a valid point, but how true will this remain in the future? A lot of these regional languages are dying out;
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It’s my perception that some formerly marginalised languages are undergoing a revival - whether this is down to increased liberalisation of governments in e.g. EU countries and elsewhere, ties to a resergence of quasi-nationalistic ethnic identity movements, or some other factors, I can’t say, but you only have to look at the Cornish revival, there’s a strong Breton movement back from the all-time lows of the 1930s, just a general Celtic revival. Here in SA, languages that were effectively suppressed by the apartheid government are finding fresh interest in literature and other media.
I don’t think this is the case with every marginal language, but I don’t think we have seen the numbers to say whether there’s a uniform dying out yet.
[QUOTE=MrDibble]
It’s my perception that some formerly marginalised languages are undergoing a revival - whether this is down to increased liberalisation of governments in e.g. EU countries and elsewhere, ties to a resergence of quasi-nationalistic ethnic identity movements, or some other factors, I can’t say, but you only have to look at the Cornish revival, there’s a strong Breton movement back from the all-time lows of the 1930s, just a general Celtic revival. Here in SA, languages that were effectively suppressed by the apartheid government are finding fresh interest in literature and other media.
I don’t think this is the case with every marginal language, but I don’t think we have seen the numbers to say whether there’s a uniform dying out yet.
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What are you talking about? According to a lot of experts, half the languages currently spoken on Earth will be extinct in 2100. That’s more than one language every two weeks. (Some sociolinguists are even grimmer, predicting that only a few hundred languages will exist in a couple centuries.) And the loss has already begun. Five hundred years ago, we had twice the number of languages we have today (do the math; that means the loss is accelerating.)
What languages that were in serious danger under apartheid are being revived anyway?
[QUOTE=Excalibre]
What are you talking about? According to a lot of experts, half the languages currently spoken on Earth will be extinct in 2100. That’s more than one language every two weeks. (Some sociolinguists are even grimmer, predicting that only a few hundred languages will exist in a couple centuries.) And the loss has already begun. Five hundred years ago, we had twice the number of languages we have today (do the math; that means the loss is accelerating.)
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I’m not saying you’re not right in the main, just that the trend is reversible, is all - that with some languages, the trend can be reversed, and has been reversed. Don’t get your knickers in a knot, I wasn’t saying you were wrong, just that it isn’t as necessarily inevitable for every minority language, as you were intimating. Lighten up, Francis.
[QUOTE=Excalibre]
What languages that were in serious danger under apartheid are being revived anyway?
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All the non-european ones were being marginalised, English and Afrikaans being the preferred mediums of education. Now we have 11 official languages, I’m seeing more mainstream use of them, like in films (You may recall Tsotsi, the Oscar winner?), books, TV - there’s a Sesame Street franchise that uses most (if not all) official languages now. In the old days, it would just have been dubbed into Afrikaans.
But, as counterpoint, the khoisan languages are mostly dying out. Nama has nominal protection in Namibia, and is going strong, but some of the North Cape Khoi languages are down to a handful of elderly speakers. So I get your point, believe me, I just don’t think it has the inevitability you attach to it.
[QUOTE=MrDibble]
All the non-european ones were being marginalised, English and Afrikaans being the preferred mediums of education. Now we have 11 official languages, I’m seeing more mainstream use of them, like in films (You may recall Tsotsi, the Oscar winner?), books, TV - there’s a Sesame Street franchise that uses most (if not all) official languages now. In the old days, it would just have been dubbed into Afrikaans.
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I sort of thought that was what you were getting at. I’ve always thought it was impressive that South Africa has so many official languages. But isiZulu and amaXhosa and isiTswana and the other current official languages of South Africa were never endangered; obviously they were oppressed in the official sphere, and that sort of thing matters over the long term, but in the immediate term of a couple generations, all of those languages have hundreds of thousands or millions of native speakers. Those aren’t the languages I’m talking about.
Most of the Khoisan languages are endangered, and that’s a particular tragedy for linguistics - an entire family of languages, and one that really tends to be of particular interest to linguists.
[QUOTE=jjimm]
There’s certainly a large accent difference. I recall a girl from Fukuoka laughing her head off at a girl from Kagoshima because of her “Kagoshima-ben”. They’re both on the island of Kyshu, only a few hundred miles apart.
And even in England, I personally have a hard time understanding people from, say, Newcastle in the north-east.
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Wow you and me both brother.
I live in the North West of England and altho’ Newcastle isn’t a million miles away I also have difficulty understanding Geordies.
The Birmingham accent is a bit easier but still can pose a problem
[QUOTE=Hugh Jass]
My pet theory is that the adaptability of English is going to lead one day to a sole language on the planet. Granted, I would imagine such a time would be very very distant. It may be called “English” and, I believe would be a direct descendant of the English that is spoken today. I imagine incorporating Spanish into English, and the gradual adaptation of the rest depending on immigration trends in the future. This is an American-centric view, granted, and an assumption that America will remain an economic force for years to come, thereby giving it leadership in the development of the international language of business.
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