Future of the American left?

Nice caricature. Your predictions may be more accurate if you based them on reality.

yeah, I agree and apologize that my sarcasm didn’t come through in the text. I was slightly exaggerating by saying that white men won’t be allowed.

But I stand by my comment about BLM and Farrakhan. That’s something that really could happen at the next Democratic convention, though probably not on the main podium…more likely at a smaller news conference outside in the lobby of the building.

That’s crazy. Nobody significant in the party likes Farrakhan. Not Bernie, not the “Squad”, not anyone.

and he’s old 87 now, 91 at the next convention if he’s still alive.

Sorry, I didn’t really detect even a hint of sarcasm there. Poe’s law?

Sarcasm there, I hope? It may be true that white men won’t be the prominent front and center and take up the majority of the breathing room, but that’s not really being disincluded.

Hell, I’d be a bit surprised if he’s still alive, much less standing.

Anyway, I don’t see why you would say that. They don’t really have anything in common.

Linda Sarsour is a prominent activist who has shared the stage with Bernie frequently during the last year. She has also proudly appeared with Farakhan.

(and for the comment about Farrakhan’s age: Sorry, I didn’t realize how old he is. But my point is still valid, even if his age makes it unlikely that he’ll show up at the convention in 2024)

So, this is your reasoning? Someone shared the stage with the loser of the Democratic primary who also supports Farakhan.

Therefore, he will be a keynote speaker in an upcoming DNC.

I think that if you go one more degree, you get Kevin Bacon.

So my point stands. Once again, nobody significant in the party likes Farrakhan. Not Bernie, not the “Squad”, not anyone.

The stupidest thing the Democratic party could do if they beat Trump in November is mistake that defeat for a mandate for their particular brand of doing things. Especially if they beat Trump soundly.

They need to keep in mind that a whole lot of people will have voted AGAINST Trump, and not necessarily FOR the Democratic party. There’s a difference, and if they don’t respect that, they’ll get surprised in 2022 for sure, and probably 2024 as well.

I think their best bet would be to set Biden up for one term, all the while putting a LOT of cameras and attention on Harris for party policies, platforms, etc… so that when 2024 rolls around, she can run effectively as an incumbent. Maybe even go so far as to have Biden endorse her early- like in 2022 or something. And policy-wise, set things up along the lines of Obama 2.0 or Clinton 2.0- moderate and pragmatic government that isn’t bent on upending the applecart.

Given the responses in other threads, I’m actually surprised there aren’t more people saying that if Trump wins, the left won’t get anywhere, because he’ll have total control of everything and won’t leave. I guess this one is attracting the optimists.

And if they don’t do anything in that time? They don’t fix ACA, or address the looming environmental crisis, or wealth inequality, or racial bias, or the Dreamers and asylum seekers?

Why should anyone come out to vote for a party that promises to get things done, but just not now, just wait another 4 years, and then we promise to get to it, assuming that it is not politically inconvenient then?

I think that if they follow your advice, then they should not be surprised when exactly what happened in 2010 happens again, as Democrats who are disappointed that nothing got done when they were in charge don’t bother to come out to vote in the midterms.

Democrats may actually have a chance to get things done, and they should do so while they can. I see no benefit in waiting.

IMHO, the stupidest thing that they could do is to sit on a majority in both houses and hold the presidency, and piss that all away in order to appease those who aren’t likely to support them once their short memories no longer remember whose policies it was that got us into this mess in the first place. You are asking them to just be the “Do nothing Democrats”, in the assumption that that will make them more palatable to voters.

I had a long and interesting conversation on the phone with a good friend of mine about this a few months ago. He was a staunch Bernie supporter and advocate of democratic socialism as a movement, whereas I am more of a moderate centrist Democrat. What we both agreed on was that the most realistic path to achieving the ideal progressive-left government policies, was to compartmentalize the concept of economic reform from the social justice issues.

“If a white, racist, sonofabitch in West Virginia is saying, ‘I’m voting Democratic because I’m a union man, end of story’, that’s when we’re actually going to get somewhere.”

How do Democrats do that when economic reform includes social justice issues like lifting disproportionately large populations of minorities out of poverty? There are certainly many poor white folks that need and deserve that kind of help just as much. But what is to be done when so many of them object to all boats being lifted by the rising tide?

I think it would have to involve multiple grassroots progressive movements in different parts of the country, with different messages tailored towards their demographics that they intend to reach. It can’t just magically happen from the top down, it needs to involve local small-scale elections, not just top-level federal offices.

The difference is that the Republican Party chose Donald Trump as their candidate and worked to elect him President. That’s not the same as Democrats not denouncing someone very few of them have ever heard of.

I too wonder what “upending the applecart” means. UHC? Election reform? Government paid or subsidized college tuition?

I think there are major roadblocks that are going to stop rural whites from voting democrat anytime soon.

Bigotry (against racial equality, against foreigners, against feminism, etc)
Viewing democrats as cowardly and weak and viewing republicans as promoting masculinity and strength

Economics alone isn’t going to counteract these things. I’m not sure what the democrats can do.

I think the future of the left is moving towards reform on the state and local level. I don’t think the left has any real future in federal politics anytime soon because the way our democracy is structured gives disproportionate power to conservatives. About ~30 states are red states vs about 20 blue states, so the senate is mostly a lost cause for the next generation. The house is both gerrymandered and rewards rural voters and small states. The electoral college rewards red states and rural voters.

I think the left will realize getting meaningful reform done federally isn’t likely anytime soon, and will focus on major reform on the state level for climate, health care, democracy, racial justice, police reform, etc. Those blue cities and blue states will hopefully be models for the federal government, but probably not for 30 years or so.

What I meant by “upending the applecart” was that the Democratic party would be making a mistake to interpret a resounding Trump defeat as a mandate for their policy ideas.

Yes, a lot of people might vote Democrat. But that’s not because they like the Democratic party, but rather that Trump and his cronies are SO odious, that by comparison, the Democrats seem like the better choice right now in this election.

But that doesn’t mean that people are giving assent to UHC, or free college, or any of the other planks of the Democratic platform. They’re just saying “Trump sucks so hard, that we’d rather vote for you, than suffer another four years of his bullshit.” Which is not at all the same thing as saying “Yes, we like all the stuff you stand for.”.

I think the Democratic party should tread lightly if they win, and not use it as an opportunity for massive reform. That’s a mistake that will alienate a lot of people who might vote Democrat in November, but who might not in 2022 if the Democrats push too hard and too fast.

While many Americans might be reluctant to identify as liberals, polls consistently show them taking the liberal side of particular issues. I can’t think of a single exception.

I am very afraid the left will be in hiding from armed Trumpists, angry that they have “stolen” the election. All those idiots with guns, mostly with the support of the police.