# Future of the Wanamaker Organ in doubt **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 10, 2025, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817 "2025-01-10T20:23:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/1 "2025-01-10T20:23:31Z")
The future of the world’s largest functioning pipe organ is uncertain now that Macy’s is closing its Center City Philadelphia store: > **[With Macy’s planned closure, the future of the historically important...](https://www.inquirer.com/news/macys-organ-future-wanamaker-building-20250109.html?id=2GdegNuCqVxWu&utm_source=social&utm_campaign=gift_link&utm_medium=referral)** > > ”It’s one of the most important four or five organs in the world,” said Ray Biswanger, executive director of the Friends of the Wanamaker Organ, which oversees the instrument. The Wanamaker Organ has been part of the Center City cultural scene forever, with two organ recitals daily throughout the year as well as integrating with the Christmas Light Show over the holidays. I’m glad I stopped in for a Christmas recital when I was in town last month. > **[Wanamaker Organ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanamaker_Organ)** > > The Wanamaker Grand Court Organ, located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, is the largest fully functioning pipe organ in the world, based on the number of playing pipes, the number of ranks and its weight. The Wanamaker Organ is located within a spacious 7-story Grand Court at Macy's Center City (formerly Wanamaker's department store) and is played twice a day Monday through Saturday. The organ is featured at several special concerts held throughout the year, including events featuring the Frien... Not sure if relocating the organ is even a remote possibility. When John Wanamaker bought if from the ST. Louis World’s Fair it took thirteen rail cars to move it. Wanamaker’s son thought it was too small for the space, so he set up an organ factory in the top floor of the store and spent the next few decades expanding the organ from the original ~10,000 pipes to its current configuration with 28,750 pipes. Hopefully the building’s owners will come up with a way to keep the organ running and maintain public access to it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/2 "2025-01-10T20:27:11Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Hopefully the building’s owners will come up with a way to keep the organ running and maintain public access to it. - Where’s the profit in that? /s, not /s ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/3 "2025-01-10T20:33:45Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Where’s the profit in that? It’s a big tourist attraction: it draws people who will then (theoretically) spend money in the store. Hopefully enough to justify the cost of maintaining the organ. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/4 "2025-01-10T20:38:21Z")
The person that owns Carmex has factory space dedicated to, what they’re calling, the “world’s largest theater pipe organ”. > **[Carma Laboratories, Inc. (Carmex) - Historic Milwaukee, Inc.](https://historicmilwaukee.org/doors-open/buildings/carma-laboratories-inc-carmex/)** > > The 40,000 square foot building was built by Carma Laboratories approximately twenty years ago specifically to function as a warehouse and distribution > **[ATOS | 4/90 Wurlitzer - Carmex Labs](https://www.atos.org/organ/wisconsin/franklin/carmex-labs)** > > 4/90 Console Specs ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/5 "2025-01-10T20:45:16Z")
That actually makes me really sad. I grew up in Philadelphia, my dad worked for the city. Every Christmas my mom would drive us kids down there for a day in Center City. We’d spend the day, pick up my dad after he was done work, then go hear the organ & see the light show at Wanamakers. It’s literally one of my favorite childhood memories. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/6 "2025-01-10T23:34:17Z")
Just down the road (Atlantic City Expressway) in Boardwalk Hall is a bigger, badder pipe organ with 33,000+ pipes. Its far from fully functional, however. Restoration work is ongoing. Wikipedia: [Boardwalk Hall Auditorium Organ - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boardwalk_Hall_Auditorium_Organ#Grand_Cornet_XI) ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/7 "2025-01-11T00:03:39Z")
That organ hasn’t been fully functional in eighty years. It has been under restoration for decades. Kind of like Atlantic City itself… ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/8 "2025-01-11T00:16:46Z")
Some billionaire could buy it, move it, and install it someplace in some large city that can be turned into an auditorium so people could come and hear the largest pipe organ in the US. It would cost a fortune to move and maintain it, but there’s probably somebody who has the money and would love to take on this kind of project for their city, and no, that’s not me. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/9 "2025-01-11T16:12:18Z")
A little good news. Any changes will need City Hall approval: > **[Philly Macy’s building has unique protections to keep historic structure intact](https://whyy.org/articles/philadelphia-macys-wanamaker-eagle-organ/)** > > The city’s historical commission would have the final say on any modifications to the building’s Grand Court, home to the famed eagle and organ. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/10 "2025-01-11T16:48:10Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Some billionaire could buy it, move it, and install it someplace… If Alex Jordan were still alive I bet he’d be eyeing it to put in the House On The Rock. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/11 "2025-01-13T00:29:48Z")
It’s also built into the building with pipes in multiple different areas. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/12 "2025-01-13T00:32:03Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Some billionaire could buy it, move it, and install it someplace in some large city that can be turned into an auditorium so people could come and hear the largest pipe organ in the US. It would cost a fortune to move and maintain it, but there’s probably somebody who has the money and would love to take on this kind of project for their city, and no, that’s not me. How many people _want_ to go to an auditorium to hear a pipe organ? My thinking is not many. Certainly not enough to fill an auditorium regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/13 "2025-01-13T00:36:13Z")
I would guess whoever steps in will have to commit to keeping the thing in Philly - which probably rules out most of the people/companies with the money to pull it off. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/14 "2025-01-13T06:06:44Z")
I don’t think moving the organ is even remotely possible. It is really built into the building. When it was expanded in the early part of the 20th century, Wanamaker had an organ factory established on-site (on the top floor of the building), so there was no requirement to build it so that it could be moved from the factory to the installation site. They could just build the cases and chambers in place. Latest news is that the current owner of the space that Macy’s occupies is planning to purchase the rest of the building (now poorly performing office space) and convert the Macy’s (three floors) space into mixed retail and dining and the upper nine floors into residential. At one point this was one of the largest department stores in the word at 1.9 million square feet - it’s a huge building. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/15 "2025-01-13T06:34:22Z")
My dad used to have a record of music played on the Wanamaker Organ. I think E. Power Biggs was one of the musicians. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/16 "2025-01-13T15:42:22Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Latest news is that the current owner of the space that Macy’s occupies is planning to purchase the rest of the building (now poorly performing office space) There was one government entity (Army Corps of Engineers???) that had significant office space in the building (1½? of the six floors), but they moved & went elsewhere. I don’t think they were able to (at least significantly) fill that space. The building is in a good location, direct access to the underground concourse so one can get to the subways or regional rail without ever having to step out into the elements. Go down to the lobby & right into Macy’s, well, for two more months. Across the street from city hall & even closer to the DA’s office for a law firm/lobbyist. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/17 "2025-01-13T15:47:30Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > It’s a big tourist attraction Exactly. There must be some entity somewhere that would want it for its historical value and the tourist interest it would attract. The government could declare it a historical site and preserve it that way, right? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/18 "2025-01-13T16:05:14Z")
I remember when I was a kid in Virginia, my family saw Mannequin in the theater. When they showed the interior of the store, my Mom and Bubby both got very excited and recognized the Wanamaker building. When I saw on the local news that Macy’s was closing and the future of the organ in light show were uncertain, I thought of Mom. I still haven’t told her partly because I keep forgetting and partly because the news will make her sad. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/19 "2025-01-13T17:05:06Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > The government could declare it a historical site and preserve it that way, right? Already is. The building on the Federal level, the Grand Court (including the organ) on the city level. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817/20 "2025-01-21T14:49:49Z")
Update: the building owners say they will keep the organ in the building: > **[Historic organ staying inside Wanamaker Building, New York firm says](https://6abc.com/post/historic-organ-staying-inside-wanamaker-building-center-city-philadelphia-new-york-firm-tf-cornerstone-says/15812180/)** > > TF Cornerstone, the landlord of the building, confirmed the news this week as talks continue about the future of the property. No indication on how or if it will be used. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/future-of-the-wanamaker-organ-in-doubt/1012817.md?page=2)