# Futuristic Sci-Fi movie stereotypes! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 13, 2001, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304 "2001-02-13T15:23:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2001, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/141 "2001-04-11T02:24:06Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by lestrange \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Sulu was all Aisan and Chekov was all Russian. \*\* True, but i read he was half Filipino and half Japanese. Quite a mix (at least if you ask some of the older Filipinos today who lived through WWII). Anyway, so he wasnt purely one thing or another, whereas Checkov was all Russian. And on the ID4 ships: It seemed obvious to me that those ships were built with the intention of destroying whatever cities/populations were on whatever planet they were mining. The big ray at the bottom did just that, it wiped out the cities it was targeted over. Weren’t there additional weapons fired at one of the aircraft that went up to it to explore? Not to mention the smaller fighters docked inside. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2001, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/142 "2001-04-11T09:52:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spider John \* > \*\* > > ORIENTATION: When the enterprise encounters an alien vessel, its oriented exactly as the enterprise is so that one of them isn’t looking at the other “upside down” for example. They’re facing each other directly and are oriented as if they were two boats floating in the same ocean. Similarly; One fleet can protect a region of space by forming a “blockade” as if the enemy were limited to movement that is “horizontal” to an imaginary plane. (i.e. the enemy cannot drop below the blockade or go above it, they can only try to go THROUGH it with no success). > > \*\* Ships in ST tend to have all their main weaponry firing in the same direction i.e. to the “front” of the ship. If everyone met at 90 degrees to each other then one fleet would meet the enemies “flank” “head on” and give them a good mauling. The DS9 episode where the Dominion fleet takes on the Federation/Klingon fleet is a good example. The action is fairly fast but you can see how the Klingons appear to enter the battle at an angle to the perceived plane of the battle and the Dominion retreat when they are indeed outflanked. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spider John \* > \*\* > When the vessels are in deep space (not significantly effected by the gravitational pull of any particular planet etc), why do then need to have a constant propellant to keep them moving toward their destination? > > \*\* The engines in ST at least use warp technology that needs to maintain a constant warp “bubble” around the ship whilst moving, and as one episode of TOS points out once shut down the warp engines need at least 1/2 hour to come back on line. (Apologies for the abundance of quotation marks, I just wanted to show I know the terms used aren’t scientific and I didn’t want anyone nitpicking over something small.) ---
**Author:** ![Spider\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@Spider\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider_John)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2001, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/143 "2001-04-11T12:56:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pushkin \* > \*\* > Ships in ST tend to have all their main weaponry firing in the same direction i.e. to the “front” of the ship. If everyone met at 90 degrees to each other then one fleet would meet the enemies “flank” “head on” and give them a good mauling. The DS9 episode where the Dominion fleet takes on the Federation/Klingon fleet is a good example. The action is fairly fast but you can see how the Klingons appear to enter the battle at an angle to the perceived plane of the battle and the Dominion retreat when they are indeed outflanked. I understand the strategic aspect. I was mostly referring to the fact that there is no “up” or “down” in space and when an alien vessel is encountered the odds of it having the same orienation (floating in the same ocean) are slim. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/144 "2001-04-15T03:47:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pushkin \* > What you don’t seem to understand is the distinction between the Federation (the alliance where different races come together to decide policy) and Starfleet (the guys who actually go out and implement these policies and carry out the hard work.) Diplomacy is always over a viewscreen or a face to face meeting, many episodes have covered this one before. By sharing control of DS9 with the Bajorans (who are independent of the Federation) the Federation was stopping an authoritarian, militaristic race from gaining control of the all important wormhole. [more trek history] > [Trek hat off, wipes brow] Kind of like America assuming control of the Panama Canal or the British Empire assuming control of Hong Kong? Or how about the Germans assuming control of Poland? The Federation are hardly depicted as weaker. Maybe in the old Captain Kirk days when the Federation was like the new United States colonizing the west. In recent series, they are always technologically superior, or numerically superior. 90% of the federation seems to be homo sapiens (like the Imperial Navy and unlike the more culturally diverse Rebel Alliance). I’ll bet many “weaker races” became citizens of the Federation the same way most of Europe became citizens of Rome. I also remember several episodes where we are introduced to shadey StarFleet Intelligence operatives. They seemed to fit the evil Gastapo stereotype more than Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan CIA superhero stereotype. [big dork hat on] I remember specific episodes/movies of Star Trek where the Federation: - Manipulated local governments to satisfy Federation interests - Removed indiginous populations against their will - Attempted military coups - Used threat of military force to negotiate trade agreements. - Routinely invade other planets space with warships and get defensive when they are confronted - Routinely involve themselves in the politics of other planets. Sounds pretty imperialistic to me. [big dork hat off] [big dork hat off again just in case] ---
**Author:** ![FEotU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@FEotU](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FEotU)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/145 "2001-04-15T06:11:20Z")
The Earth of the future willl be: 1. a utopia(or near utopia) under one planetary govt. 2. a post-apocalyptic wasteland with slavery/feudal systems 3. a collection of corporate states rather than nations 4)??? fill in the blank No matter what the alien (intelligent or animal) looks like, it will find human women attractive, and want to mate with them. In almost every case, a super intelligent malevolent computer can be overcome by spouting gibberish at it (ie: everything I say is a lie). For some reason, if your spacecraft is harboring an unwelcome intruder, you can’t just put on spacesuits and open all the airlocks. Humans and aliens are compatible enough to create offspring together. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/146 "2001-04-15T06:50:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Discovering a naturally-occurring chemical element not on the Periodic Table. (What the hell is dilithium supposed to be, anyway? Or Tibanna gas?) I assume that dilithium, just by virtue of it’s name, is “two lithium atoms bonded together”. Hardly a “new element”. As for Tibanna Gas… that’s not an “element”. That’s a chemical compound made up of several different elements. Like water, plastic, and American culture. Sheesh, learn the difference between “elements” and “compounds” before you criticize someone else’s usage of the same! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/147 "2001-04-15T15:13:35Z")
In answer to msmith537; I have an idea of the episodes you mention, I’ll try to counter them; - Manipulated local governments to satisfy Federation interests- True, but the interests of the Federation are a stable, peaceful galaxy eg STTOS A private little war- Kirk and co. give advanced weaponry to a primitive race but only to counteract the Klingons who do the same and other TOS episodes where they have freed indiginous populations form tyrannical rulers/computers. - Removed indiginous populations against their will- STTNG they did remove American Indian colonists from a planet but only because it was then handed over to the Cardassians and their continued presence would have been a possible flashpoint. - Attempted military coups- Many times Starfleet officers have tried to ignore interstellar agreements or assume military control of the Federation but have always been stopped by fellow officers. - Routinely invade other planets space with warships and get defensive when they are confronted- In the course of boldy going where no man has gone before it is natural that they should meet other races on their home territory but they still have a right to defend themselves until the facts are clear. - Routinely involve themselves in the politics of other planets- indeed they do, is this such a bad thing? If they can stop the collapse of an Empire that will trigger intergalactic war or stop a government from crushing a large number of its own populace then why not? (I’ll concede that sometimes they do this for the good of their morales.) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\* > Kind of like America assuming control of the Panama Canal or the British Empire assuming control of Hong Kong? Or how about the Germans assuming control of Poland? > > The Federation are hardly depicted as weaker. Maybe in the old Captain Kirk days when the Federation was like the new United States colonizing the west. In recent series, they are always technologically superior, or numerically superior. 90% of the federation seems to be homo sapiens (like the Imperial Navy and unlike the more culturally diverse Rebel Alliance). I’ll bet many “weaker races” became citizens of the Federation the same way most of Europe became citizens of Rome. > > I also remember several episodes where we are introduced to shadey StarFleet Intelligence operatives. They seemed to fit the evil Gastapo stereotype more than Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan CIA superhero stereotype. > \*\* In answer to the other comments DS9 was always shared by the Bajorans with the Federation and the Federation had no explicit right to be there other than by invitation. Besides it was never used for nefarious purposes, did the Federation ever get slaves to work with mineral ore on the station. Maybe humans got back on their feet fairly soon after the Federation was formed. Maybe other races aren’t as interested in putting so much time and effort into making the Federation and Starfleet work, after coming out of WWIII surely Humans more than any other would see the usefulness of the Federation. Many weaker races have refused Federation membership of their own free will. As for Section 51 (I think this is the name of Starfleet intelligence) in the face of Dominion activity its proved its worth too. This may seem Machiavellian at times, the need for these actions is sometimes only obvious sometime after they took place, but they are necessary and carried out only for the purposes of good. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/148 "2001-04-15T18:49:53Z")
Pushkin, you’re ignoring the worst violation of human rights by the Federation… they require all their military officers to wear glorified pajamas while on duty. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/149 "2001-04-15T19:01:53Z")
Come on, guys (and gals), let’s admit it. In _no episode or movie_ do we actually _see_ anything that clearly defines how the Federation works! Yes, there is a Federation council, but there’s been no discussion of how its members are chosen (though there has been some suggestion, I believe) and exactly how it operates is unknown. No one’s ever read aloud the Federation Charter and we’ve never had an episode or movie where they show the negotiations between the Federation and a planet seeking membership. There’s two reasons for this: 1. It’d probably be boring as hell. We watch Star Trek in all its various forms to see things get blown up, not to see a bunch of diplomats talking to one another. 2. If they actually sat down and defined the Federation to the Nth degree it would limit some of the ideas they could use for episodes or movies. As for the reason there’s more humans in Star Trek than non-humans, the make up would take away from the special effects budget of seeing things blown up. Which would you prefer? Lots of aliens or lots of explosions? You decide. Can we now all go back to discussing the other cliches and stop worrying about if the Federation is a democracy or a tyranny? ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/150 "2001-04-15T19:26:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\* > Can we now all go back to discussing the other cliches and stop worrying about if the Federation is a democracy or a tyranny? \*\* Cliche no 451; There’s always a Trek fan who takes things to heart. Wait a minute this isn’t a cliche, its true! ---
**Author:** ![FEotU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@FEotU](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FEotU)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/151 "2001-04-15T19:29:16Z")
Any time Earth is viewed from space (and it’s not totally covered in cloud) we will see it from the traditional “North pole is the top” orientation, and we will also see N. and S. America, rather than Europe or Asia. All spacecraft will have the same orientation to each other, none will appear “upside down” to the crew of the other ship. It is impossible to travel from Earth to Mars (Jupiter, Saturn, etc) without encountering a meteor large enough to destroy the ship. ---
**Author:** ![FEotU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@FEotU](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FEotU)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/152 "2001-04-15T19:30:45Z")
Any time Earth is viewed from space (and it’s not totally covered in cloud) we will see it from the traditional “North pole is the top” orientation, and we will also see N. and S. America, rather than Europe or Asia. All spacecraft will have the same orientation to each other, none will appear “upside down” to the crew of the other ship. It is impossible to travel from Earth to Mars (Jupiter, Saturn, etc) without encountering a meteor on a collision course. ---
**Author:** ![FEotU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@FEotU](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FEotU)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/153 "2001-04-15T19:34:07Z")
Sorry about that, my finger slipped; maybe the moderator can delete the earlier post? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/154 "2001-04-15T20:22:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FEotU \* > **Any time Earth is viewed from space (and it’s not totally covered in cloud) we will see it from the traditional “North pole is the top” orientation, and we will also see N. and S. America, rather than Europe or Asia.** Unless it’s anime, in which case we see Japan. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2001, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/155 "2001-04-16T08:43:50Z")
Starfleet usually fails to see the value of spacesuits in protecting against, well, space. There was an episode of Voyager where they had a hull breach and nebula gases were coming in and making everyone sick… suit up morons! Starships are always hiding in nebulas. Nebulas are not much more substantial than hard vacuum. The only reason they are visible is that they are typically many thousands of lightyears across, and block some wavelengths of light that pass through them. What’s up with the USS designation on Starfleet ships? Unless the United States turned into the Federation, there shouldn’t be any United States Ships cruising about. Of course, Starfleet HQ is in San Francisco… The Universal Translator works instantly when encountering a new species. In Larry Niven’s books, the translator takes a while before it picks up a new language, which is how it should be. As for humans being able to breed with Romulans, Klingons, etc., there was an episode of TNG where it was revealed that all the humanoid races were descended from one race in the distant past. I think this parent race had seeded the worlds with their own DNA or something, I don’t remember exactly. Kinda stupid, but there you go. They used the same explanation in _Mission to Mars_. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2001, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/156 "2001-04-16T11:11:24Z")
In the _Star Trek_ universe “USS” stands for “United Star Ship” (“United” as in “United Federation of Planets”). This is, admittedly, kind of lame, and is an obvious pandering to the show’s original American audience. In the later series especially they at least occasionally threw in a USS _Yamato_ to relieve the overwhelmingly American tedium of all the USS _Constitution_’s and USS _Lexington_’s; on the other hand, you never seem to see a USS _Vl’hurg_ or a USS _Mxylphyt_ or any other good non-human names. (I’m sure some _really_ hard core Trekkie will now post to correct me and point out that in Episode Blah-blah…) ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2001, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/157 "2001-04-16T18:56:13Z")
Here’s the post you quoted from, IN FULL: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\*How about this: Discovering a naturally-occurring chemical element not on the Periodic Table. (What the hell is dilithium supposed to be, anyway? Or Tibanna gas?) If you look at the [P.T.,](http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic) you’ll see that there are no gaps in the Table at all, except at the end. If its place is at the end of the Table, such an element would be extremely unstable and highly radioactive, with a half-life measured in seconds. Or less. > > If dilithium and Tibanna gas are supposed to be chemical compounds, what are they a compound of? \*\* If you can’t read the last line, have someone read it to you. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![NPavelka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/edb3f5/32.png) [@NPavelka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NPavelka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2001, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/158 "2001-04-16T19:45:23Z")
[QUOTEon the other hand, you never seem to see a USS _Vl’hurg_ or a USS _Mxylphyt_ or any other good non-human names. (I’m sure some _really_ hard core Trekkie will now post to correct me and point out that in Episode Blah-blah…) \*\*[/QUOTE] Hard core Treki reporting in… The Klingons use IKC (Imperial Klingon Cruiser… I think) and the Romulans and other species just name their ships (no lettering before hand)… geek report out… Nick ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2001, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/159 "2001-04-16T21:36:43Z")
I hope nobody has mentioned this, but I don’t have the time or patients(sp) to read through 4 pages of reply’s. So if somebody else already brought this up, sorry. One thing I’ve noticed for a long time is how, with very few exceptions, other planets don’t have different ethic groups or people of different national origins. With few exceptions, like the black Vulcan from Voyager, in almost all Sci-Fi movies or tv shows, the alians all have the same skin color and all speak the same language. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2001, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304/160 "2001-04-16T21:59:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\*In the _Star Trek_ universe “USS” stands for “United Star Ship” (“United” as in “United Federation of Planets”). This is, admittedly, kind of lame, and is an obvious pandering to the show’s original American audience. > > In the later series especially they at least occasionally threw in a USS _Yamato_ to relieve the overwhelmingly American tedium of all the USS _Constitution_’s and USS _Lexington_’s; on the other hand, you never seem to see a USS _Vl’hurg_ or a USS _Mxylphyt_ or any other good non-human names. (I’m sure some _really_ hard core Trekkie will now post to correct me and point out that in Episode Blah-blah…) \*\* Hard core Trekker reporting! ST TNG Episode; Descent Part1 USS Gorkon NCC40512 Excelsior class vessel named after Klingon Chancellor Gorkon for his peace efforts, it was Admiral Nechayev’s flagship as part of a task force to counter an expected Borg invasion. If you care to pay attention there are ships named after something other than an American Warship eg USS Hood, Exeter, Stargazer, Zhukov etc As to the lack of Space suits for emergencies in Trek, force fields are faster than suits, which, by the way, are also present. For a compromise of sorts here’s a Trek cliche; The alien races always wear fantastically elaborate and impractical clothing whatever their role in society, in the Federation staff not working onboard a Starship always wear boiler suits no matter what their role. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/futuristic-sci-fi-movie-stereotypes/54304.md?page=9)