# G&Ts **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 17, 1999, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192 "1999-08-17T11:28:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BELN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BELN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BELN)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 1999, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/1 "1999-08-17T11:28:00Z")
Gin and tonic. Quinine. The Empire. Interesting. Quit the abuse about British food, though, we have some of the finest restaurants in the world. And, while we also have some very poor ones, many of these share the same name, something like McDonalds, I think … * * * Uh-oh. Fish. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 1999, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/2 "1999-08-17T16:28:00Z")
Here is the link to the column being discussed: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/990813.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/990813.html) Please remember to add the url when referring to a column. As for food in Great Britain, yes, there are great restaurants there. Most of them are Indian and Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![BELN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BELN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BELN)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 1999, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/3 "1999-08-18T14:29:00Z")
Do you live here? No. Do I? Yes. Shut up. I was writing as an informed individual. Oh, and by the way, those Chinese & Indian restaurants are British Chinese and Indian restaurants. If your point was supposed to be that food from a British/English culture is crappy, well then you might want to reasess that notion too; traditional food is now on the menu at top London restaurants, a number of which are Michelin starred. Sorry about the URL. * * * 'Life? Don’t talk to me about life. ---
**Author:** ![TheIncredibleHolg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@TheIncredibleHolg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheIncredibleHolg)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 1999, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/4 "1999-08-18T14:49:00Z")
BELN, you must be new to this forum (4 posts according to your profile). Around here, we don’t usually tell people to shut up. And as for abuse of British food: you complain about McDonald’s yourself. What is this, “I can take any joke unless it’s on me”? ---
**Author:** ![BELN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BELN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BELN)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 1999, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/5 "1999-08-18T14:53:00Z")
There was no joke. McDonalds is an American owned corporation. Apologies for the social faux pas * * * 'Life? Don’t talk to me about life. ---
**Author:** ![TheIncredibleHolg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@TheIncredibleHolg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheIncredibleHolg)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 1999, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/6 "1999-08-18T15:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > McDonalds is an American owned corporation. Hmmm… you didn’t understand me, did you? My point was this: If you can malign American food, you should be able to tolerate a few remarks on British cuisine. And yes, there was a (mild) joke. If you don’t think it’s funny, stop whining. ---
**Author:** ![BELN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BELN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BELN)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 1999, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/7 "1999-08-18T15:44:00Z")
There was no joke; nor was there any whining. There was, however a point. That it ill behoves an American to mock the quality of English or British cuisine when fast-food of the type sold by McDonalds is what leaps to mind when American food is mentioned to the rest of the world; that does not mean that all American food IS like McDonalds. The point was about ignorance of the true situation, ignorance which I attempted to remedy. In doing so in a subtle way I seem to have been mistaken for someone who was joking. WWW stands for WORLD WIDE WEB, and it should be treated as such regardless of the origin of the site. The remark that sparked this was made in the SD column and that what what the original post was in reponse to. My point about McDs being American owned was a direct response to the remark about Indian and Chinese restaurants, the distinction being that these are usually owned and operated by British citizens. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding. * * * 'Life? Don’t talk to me about life. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/8 "1999-08-19T05:56:00Z")
[[BELN, you must be new to this forum (4 posts according to your profile). Around here, we don’t usually tell people to shut up.]] That’s okay, I took it in the spirit it was intended. I hope! Anyway, I’d feel the same way if someone mocked New Mexican cuisine. Though it _is_ traditional for Americans to mock British food. England, like the US, has been fortunate enough to have many international influences in their cuisine. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 1999, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/9 "1999-08-18T18:02:00Z")
ps – Everywhere I’ve been in the world (Europe, Latin America, the Caribbean, Southeast Asia), it’s common to see local people line up for crummy American fast food… to often prefer a Coca Cola to fresh fruit juice. As an American who enjoys a variety of regional foods, I find this to be unfortunate. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 1999, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/10 "1999-08-18T21:38:00Z")
I have travelled through the UK often enough to comment on the food, which divides into the very good and the very bland. Much of the very good is imported – some of the best Indian food in the world, for instance, but there’s also Aberdeen Steak Houses (bleaaah). InLondon, I’ve had absolutely fantastic Dover sole (the real stuff, not the American tasteless imitation) but I’ve also had Dover sole that could pass for scrod (in-joke.) Nonetheless, snide comments on the mediocrity of British cooking have become a tradition, and we respect our traditions, we does. American food is similar, in that the best American food is Chinese, Italian, Japanese, etc. However, America has great steaks – second only to Argentina, IMHO. If you’re trying to compare hot dog and fries to fish and chips, I’d say they’re both equally barf-able… or tolerable if you’re in that kind of mood. What foods these morsels be! ---
**Author:** ![geopburdell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/57b2e6/32.png) [@geopburdell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geopburdell)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/11 "1999-08-19T03:16:00Z")
Well, I am coming to London for a week in September; Where SHOULD I eat? ---
**Author:** ![TheIncredibleHolg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@TheIncredibleHolg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheIncredibleHolg)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/12 "1999-08-19T08:06:00Z")
This discussion is getting ridiculous, but what the heck. BELN, allow me to make my pojnt clear once more. 1. There _was_ a joke. Cecil said, “Over time they learned to love the godawful stuff. (You can see this principle at work in a lot of British cuisine.)” **He didn’t really mean that eating awful stuff until you like it is a principle of British cuisine!** It was a joke, a humorous remark. If you don’t think it’s funny, that’s your problem. Or did you think I meant _you_ were joking? You sure didn’t sound like that. If I had taken your “Shut up” as a joke, I wouldn’t have responded. 2. Yes, this _is_ the World Wide Web. And one of its greatest assets is its freedom of speech. We can make fun of everything and everyone. Of course there are some limits of good taste, but Cecil never violated those. You’re pushing political correctness _way_ too far. And telling people to shut up on the WWW is just ridiculous. 3. Cecil’s columns are produced in America for the American newspaper market. They are on the WWW, and maybe they’re reprinted by some non-American papers. But they’re still American in origin and written to appeal to Americans. You’ll have to live with that. I’m German, and Cecil has made a few remarks about Germans. So what? I can laugh at myself, why can’t you? Can we now get serious again? ---
**Author:** ![BELN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BELN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BELN)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/13 "1999-08-19T09:42:00Z")
GillGat: thank you, the remark was not meant to be offensive, just a little blunt for effect. Considering some of the obscenity and religious, political and racial abuse I have encountered in discussions on this site I am surprised Holg found it so shocking. Holg: you revealed yourself to be suffering a sense of humour failure, not me. I am aware that Cecil’s remark was ligthearted hence a none too heavy attempt to correct it. My follow up was an expansion of that point made a little stronger for the sake of stating a position on something that I was well qualified to write about. The ‘no joke’ remark referred to my comment about McDonalds, which, while light in tone, wasn’t a joke. I at no stage ‘joked’ about American food, I was making a point about what I as an English resident percieved to be the irony of an American making a remark about another countries food via an international medium. I am not concerned as to what other mediums the column appears via, nor what nationality you are. I am baffled as to your accusation regarding being unable to take what I dished out; I did not dish it out. I agree that this has got out of hand. If you find my style so problematic I suggest we take this too the pit. You appear to have nothing to say on the subject of food anyway. Geopburdell: I would suggest trying: Gordon Ramsay (Xpensive, volatile chef, arguably best food in London – very heavily booked, try lunchtimes) Oak Room (Xpensive, try lunch again for more reasonable prices and booking) Bibendum Mash (V.hip) Quaglino’s ## For their numbers just call 192 for Directory Enquiries when you get here. 'Life? Don’t talk to me about life. ---
**Author:** ![BELN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BELN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BELN)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/14 "1999-08-19T09:59:00Z")
Damn, loads of typos in that last one. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/15 "1999-08-19T13:27:00Z")
If we wanna open a discussion of “Places to Dine whilst in London”, I suggest that belongs in the MPSIMS forum… To be followed by “Places to Dine whilst in the States,” “Places to Dine and Not Have to Eat Anything Moving whilst in Tokyo”, “Places to Dine whilst in Lagos (there are only two)”; etc. ---
**Author:** ![TheIncredibleHolg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@TheIncredibleHolg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheIncredibleHolg)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/16 "1999-08-19T14:30:00Z")
BELN, we don’t seem to be getting anywhere with this. For the sake of European peace, let’s call it a misunderstanding. And since I don’t frequent the Pit, let’s just quit it. ---
**Author:** ![BELN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BELN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BELN)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/17 "1999-08-19T16:46:00Z")
Fine by me. As for the places to dine suggestion, I was only being polite to geopburdell. BELN out. * * * 'Life? Don’t talk to me about life. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/18 "1999-08-19T18:52:00Z")
[[GillGat: thank you, the remark was not meant to be offensive, just a little blunt for effect. Considering some of the obscenity and religious, political and racial abuse I have encountered in discussions on this site I am surprised Holg found it so shocking.]] It’s a credit to this particular forum (Cecil’s Columns)that this is as confrontational as we seem to get! [[American food is similar, in that the best American food is Chinese, Italian, Japanese, etc.]] CkDext, remind me to take you out to eat when you get to New Mexico. You apparently aren’t familiar with the green chile chicken enchilada or carne adovada. And no, these aren’t “imported foods.” They’re about as indigenous as you can get. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/19 "1999-08-19T19:04:00Z")
\<\< CkDext, remind me to take you out to eat when you get to New Mexico. You apparently aren’t familiar with the green chile chicken enchilada or carne adovada. \>\> Oh, God, Jill, next you’ll be telling me that you think Tex-Mex is food. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 1999, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192/20 "1999-08-19T23:03:00Z")
[[Oh, God, Jill, next you’ll be telling me that you think Tex-Mex is food.]] I didn’t say that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/g-ts/192.md?page=2)