# GAB Board head discusses vote fraud in Wisconsin **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 5, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101 "2012-06-05T00:47:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/1 "2012-06-05T00:47:59Z")
(GAB = Government Accountability Board) Among other things. Question on fraud arises at 3:44. [http://video.wpt2.org/video/2241454185/](http://video.wpt2.org/video/2241454185/) There were a few felons caught registering. He and the interviewer bend over backward trying to be neutral. Watch the entire (mostly boring) piece to get an idea of that neutrality. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/2 "2012-06-05T01:24:04Z")
Also predicted a heavy turnout of 60-65%. Higher than 2010, but probably less than the presidential election. In 2008 Wiconsin had the second highest statewide turnout. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/3 "2012-06-05T03:18:46Z")
Can you do us a favor and quote the relevant sections, to give us an idea of your point? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/4 "2012-06-05T03:27:21Z")
Sorry, that came off ruder than intended. I meant that it’s unclear whether you agree or not with what they are saying. I’m wanting you to quote the sections you agree with and state that, or quote the sections you disagree and state that. Having watched the video now, it seems your main point is that _only_ a few felons (the video says 20) have voted, and thus claims Walker has made about voter fraud are false. And that you think it’s funny how they bend over backward to try to justify his comment at “political” rather than factual. Am I correct? ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/5 "2012-06-05T12:51:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Sorry, that came off ruder than intended. I meant that it’s unclear whether you agree or not with what they are saying. I’m wanting you to quote the sections you agree with and state that, or quote the sections you disagree and state that. > > Having watched the video now, it seems your main point is that _only_ a few felons (the video says 20) have voted, and thus claims Walker has made about voter fraud are false. And that you think it’s funny how they bend over backward to try to justify his comment at “political” rather than factual. Am I correct? In the 2010 election I believe there were 7 cases of fraud. Mostly felons trying to vote. I was trying to get people to watch with an open mind. The whole interview is remarkably cool and calm considering the heated atmosphere in Wisconsin. A common sense view might be helpful. How much difference does each vote make? The answer is not much. (Margin of victory for Walker last time was 50,000.) Rancid Prebus said fraud would be 1-2% which if two million vote would amount to 20,000 to 40,000 votes. Hard to imagine how that many fraudulent votes could be spread over some 2,000 precincts. You’d need 5,000 or 10,000 people willing to risk their freedom in order to add that many. Now, if we’re talking about hacking Diebold voting machines like the Republicans did in Ohio in 2004, the task becomes far more managable. But that’s not what Prebus was implying. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/6 "2012-06-05T13:27:35Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > In the 2010 election I believe there were 7 cases of fraud. Mostly felons trying to vote. > > I was trying to get people to watch with an open mind. The whole interview is remarkably cool and calm considering the heated atmosphere in Wisconsin. > > A common sense view might be helpful. How much difference does each vote make? The answer is not much. (Margin of victory for Walker last time was 50,000.) Rancid Prebus said fraud would be 1-2% which if two million vote would amount to 20,000 to 40,000 votes. Hard to imagine how that many fraudulent votes could be spread over some 2,000 precincts. You’d need 5,000 or 10,000 people willing to risk their freedom in order to add that many. > > Now, if we’re talking about hacking Diebold voting machines like the Republicans did in Ohio in 2004, the task becomes far more managable. > > But that’s not what Prebus was implying. Under ordinary circumstances, you’re right – with ordinary (even “close” ordinary") the margins are so great that it’s highly unlikely fraudulent votes are decisive. But occasionally (Florida presidential, 2000; Washington governor, 2004) the race become razor thin. In Washington in 2004, Christine Gregoire became governor by a margin of 129 votes. The problem with not fixing the issue now is that after the fact, when everyone is scrambling to support their side, it becomes impossible. The reason to fear voter fraud is not the election where the margin is 10,000. It’s the odd election where the margin is 100. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/7 "2012-06-05T14:41:04Z")
Of course disenfranchising 2000 otherwise eligible voters to catch the 7 frauds, is much more likely to swing a close election. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/8 "2012-06-05T14:53:14Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Of course disenfranchising 2000 otherwise eligible voters to catch the 7 frauds, is much more likely to swing a close election. Yes, that would be bad. But that hasn’t been done. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/9 "2012-06-05T16:17:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Under ordinary circumstances, you’re right – with ordinary (even “close” ordinary") the margins are so great that it’s highly unlikely fraudulent votes are decisive. > > But occasionally (Florida presidential, 2000; Washington governor, 2004) the race become razor thin. In Washington in 2004, Christine Gregoire became governor by a margin of 129 votes. > > The problem with not fixing the issue now is that after the fact, when everyone is scrambling to support their side, it becomes impossible. > > The reason to fear voter fraud is not the election where the margin is 10,000. It’s the odd election where the margin is 100. True, but Rancid was saying 1-2% which is a huge number, an impossible number to reach without counting fraud. Vote fraud the way Republican envision it is a myth, an urban legend. The nightmare in Ohio in 2004 where Democratic districts had eight hour waiting lines (Oberlin where my daughter’s best friend did the waiting in the rain) and accusations of Diebold machines overcounting were far more serious than any retail fraud in Wisconsin. Sometimes I think Republicans are guilty of projection where they project motives and methods they themselves use on to the Democrats. Let’s not forget the Indiana Secretary of State who was guilty of cheating: [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-jury-convicts-indiana-elections-chief-of-voter-fraud-20120204,0,105867.story?track=rss](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-jury-convicts-indiana-elections-chief-of-voter-fraud-20120204,0,105867.story?track=rss) > [@](#): > > 10:33 a.m. CST, February 4, 2012 > NOBLESVILLE, Ind (Reuters) - An Indiana jury convicted embattled Republican Secretary of State Charlie White in the early hours of Saturday on six out of seven felony charges including perjury, theft and voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/10 "2012-06-05T16:21:16Z")
That not voter fraud! That’s voter fraud lite! Very, very different. Sorta. Kinda. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/11 "2012-06-05T18:03:47Z")
And of course the net effect of fraud is even smaller yet, because not all of those frauds will be voting for the same candidate, and hence will partially cancel each other out. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/12 "2012-06-05T18:37:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And of course the net effect of fraud is even smaller yet, because not all of those frauds will be voting for the same candidate, and hence will partially cancel each other out. Unlike voter suppression efforts, which have a demonstrably republican bias. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/13 "2012-06-06T00:45:04Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Of course disenfranchising 2000 otherwise eligible voters to catch the 7 frauds, is much more likely to swing a close election. For some folks, disenfranchising 2000 eligible voters would be OK… As long as they are the wrong _sort_ of voters. You know. Those who don’t put proper thought into their vote, and end up voting for the “wrong” party. Those ones. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/14 "2012-06-09T06:56:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, that would be bad. > > But that hasn’t been done. There’s some evidence that that did happen in Florida in 2000, where carelessness and errors in the purge of the voting list led to a large number of people being erroneously removed. Here’s an article from the LA Times from 2001 about the subject. > **[Florida Net Too Wide in Purge of Voter Rolls](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-may-21-mn-620-story.html)** > > Politics: Thousands were wrongfully called felons. Errors may have affected presidential election. For instance, from the article: > [@](#): > > Checking felony data from other states, it mistakenly used a list of 8,000 Texans who had committed misdemeanors, not felonies. But DBT officials had little sympathy when some of the transplanted Texans complained of getting letters warning that they could not vote because they were felons. > > “There are just some people that feel when you mess with ‘their right to vote,’ you’re messing with their life,” Thorogood groused in an e-mail. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gab-board-head-discusses-vote-fraud-in-wisconsin/624101/15 "2012-06-09T08:04:59Z")
Boy, some people, huh?