# Gack.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178 "2013-09-18T21:11:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/61 "2013-09-20T20:17:49Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not really. Deniers won’t be swayed by arguments. And the asshole in question is not arguing in good faith. He is playing everyone like a fiddle and you are dancing to his tune. If it was a wrong-headed non-troll I’d say go ahead but that thread is a waste of good bandwidth that could be used for charity. Or porn. Or charity porn. Who’s trying to sway deniers? There are non-deniers out there that may have never heard of Holocaust denial- and that’s why (IMO) challenging those views with rigor is necessary. Idiots shouldn’t be free to make claims without being challenged, refuted, and mocked. And on this board they have a pretty good track record of getting themselves banned, so I think there’s no downside. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/62 "2013-09-20T20:23:35Z")
Can we just get on with banning the useless fuck for obvious trolling already? [Exhibit one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16680599&postcount=112): > [@Gack](#): > > Did the Nazis try to wipe out Europe’s Jews? > > The Nazis did try to rid Europe of the Jews. They put the Jews in camps. The Jews were made to work in the camps. A large number of Jews died in the camps, and there is documentation for all the camps. > … > The Nazis did not kill Jews in the camps for being Jews. How can that conclusion be drawn from the preceding statements and not be **blatant** trolling? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/63 "2013-09-20T20:35:12Z")
Because holding unpopular opinions is not trolling; it is only trolling if he claims to hold opinions that he does not genuinely hold in order to provoke reaction. I’m not offering an opinion on what his true beliefs are - I’m just pointing out that the burden of proof is more than just “he believes stupid crap”. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/64 "2013-09-20T22:49:13Z")
I rather expect this wilfully ignorant lying shitstain will get banned sooner rather than later. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/65 "2013-09-20T23:22:49Z")
[QUOTE=me] And I appreciate all those who will combat his stupid misinformation, but at some point, enough is enough, and it just becomes pathetic. Mods, wrap it up? Please, for the love of god, put this tortured pile of crap out of its misery? (The thread, obviously - not the poster) [/QUOTE] Well, obviously I have to lie in GD… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/66 "2013-09-21T01:22:16Z")
Anyway, we can establish that he can not get away from continuing to make a basic stupid point, that was according to him a key one that convinced him to follow the path of Holocaust denial. He insists that because museum people got some things wrong in a recreation at Auschwitz that then all the holocaust should be in doubt. As pointed in the thread, history sites for the pilgrims in Plymouth and in the Gettysburg battlefield get things wrong, but that does not mean that therefore the pilgrims and the civil war did not exist. As he has doubled down on this stupid point, one can now safely put him in the “ignore as a willful stupid ignorant waste of oxygen” column. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/67 "2013-09-21T08:49:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As he has doubled down on this stupid point, one can now safely put him in the “ignore as a willful stupid ignorant waste of oxygen” column. You know what I love about this forum? Mods _ban_ people for that here. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/68 "2013-09-21T13:44:47Z")
What’s bizarre is that the whole Gack thing is like a replay of Usenet in 1994. Every single thing he’s said was said then, and was blown apart then. It’s like the Internet’s “oldies” station. There’s a kind of comforting nostalgia to it. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/69 "2013-09-21T14:03:14Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > How can that conclusion be drawn from the preceding statements and not be **blatant** trolling? Well… racism is pretty much brain damage. And our Stormfronter is pretty stupid. It’s quite possible that he’s not so much trolling as he is a waste of carbon. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/70 "2013-09-21T14:36:25Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Well… racism is pretty much brain damage. And our Stormfronter is pretty stupid. It’s quite possible that he’s not so much trolling as he is a waste of carbon. And hydrogen and Nitrogen… Gack is like a reverse _They May be Giants_ song. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/71 "2013-09-21T15:46:52Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Because holding unpopular opinions is not trolling; it is only trolling if he claims to hold opinions that he does not genuinely hold in order to provoke reaction. Trolling is deliberately posting something to provoke a reaction and piss people off. The idea that it can’t be trolling unless they don’t actually believe it is a popular one here for some reason, but it’s not really true. Back when I frequented 4chan (which is of course, nothing but trolls trolling trolls) I’d troll white supremacist threads by posting interracial porn, and threads praising the Nazis with the Red flag being raised over the Reichstag. In neither case was I claiming to hold opinions that I did not genuinely hold; I was only posting to provoke a reaction. Or I’d start a thread with a picture of rabbit-chan with the promise to post tits if /b/ could count to 10 (there were no pictures of her tits). Again, not posting a position I didn’t actually believe, but trolling nonetheless. If Gack truly believes everything he says and starts posting it on say a Jewish dating site he’s clearly trolling, regardless of if he believes what he’s saying or not. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/72 "2013-09-21T16:07:15Z")
That’s a crappy definition of trolling. Then are the hardcore evangelical Christians trolling by proseltyzing on the boards? I’d say no, even though they know they’ll provoke a response. They’re trying to spread their message. **Gack** , whatever else his faults, I’ll give credit for at least not posting solely to provoke a response but also to spread his message. It’s a shitty message but I’ll give him credit for earnestly trying to convert a few people. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/73 "2013-09-21T16:19:58Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > That’s a crappy definition of trolling. > > Then are the hardcore evangelical Christians trolling by proseltyzing on the boards? I’d say no, even though they know they’ll provoke a response. They’re trying to spread their message. > > **Gack** , whatever else his faults, I’ll give credit for at least not posting solely to provoke a response but also to spread his message. It’s a shitty message but I’ll give him credit for earnestly trying to convert a few people. Fuck that. That’s like saying “Well, of course Hitler was wrong, but you have to admire his charisma and efficiency !” or whatever. If your cause is shit, you’re shit ; I don’t care if you’re Mahatma “Lincoln” Cicero in defending or promoting it. And you’re _worse_ if you really believe in it deep down. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/74 "2013-09-21T17:00:15Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’s like saying “Well, of course Hitler was wrong, but you have to admire his charisma and efficiency !” or whatever. For what it’s worth, and as someone who had virtually his entire extended family reduced to ashes by the Nazis, I have to disagree. Hitler was a beast, a vile creature, utter scum, but we should not pretend that he didn’t have qualities which made him very, very effective at what he did. “The fact that Hitler was a political genius unmasks the nature of politics in general as no other fact can.” - Wilhelm Reich ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/75 "2013-09-21T17:01:54Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > For what it’s worth, and as someone who had virtually his entire extended family reduced to ashes by the Nazis, I have to disagree. Hitler was a beast, a vile creature, utter scum, but we should not pretend that he didn’t have qualities which made him very, very effective at what he did. > > “The fact that Hitler was a political genius unmasks the nature of politics in general as no other fact can.” - Wilhelm Reich But he was not the **military** genius he thought he was. He lost the war partly because he so often insisted on running it and overruling his generals; mainly because he tried to take on the Soviet Union, the British Empire, and the United States of America all at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/76 "2013-09-21T17:12:06Z")
Sure. Hitler’s leadership almost certainly was the single most decisive factor in the Nazis’ military defeat. But to ignore the fact that he was a tremendously gifted politician in many ways is, I would argue, either misguided or myopic. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/77 "2013-09-21T17:19:37Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Fuck that. That’s like saying “Well, of course Hitler was wrong, but you have to admire his charisma and efficiency !” or whatever. If your cause is shit, you’re shit ; My claim is that his goal is not just provoking a response. He’s actually trying to convert a few people. That’s not mutually exclusive with also being a total dipshit. Maybe that’s a distinction without a difference, but I like to think I’d react differently to a troll who didn’t actually believe what he was promoting and was actually only looking to raise some internet hackles. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/78 "2013-09-21T18:07:13Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > For what it’s worth, and as someone who had virtually his entire extended family reduced to ashes by the Nazis, I have to disagree. Hitler was a beast, a vile creature, utter scum, but we should not pretend that he didn’t have qualities which made him very, very effective at what he did. Not my point, as such (though I may have voiced it badly). My point was that the latter being true doesn’t somehow invalidate, excuse, obfuscate or whitewash the former out of the picture in any way. Hitler possibly was a competent political animal, who definitely happens to have been a colossal shithead. Each and every one of his political tactics & shenanigans consisted in large part in shitheaded-ness and straight up violent thuggery, and even when they weren’t have to be observed in the context of them being in service of staggering shitheadery. And as such, shouldn’t be admired or emulated. At best noted in a “we won’t get fooled again” kind of way. But to get back to the shithead being observed right now, “well, at least he ain’t a troll” isn’t good enough, is it ? Let him fuck a cactus if he’s a troll. Let him fuck it \*\*twice \*\*if he isn’t. There’s no excuse for still being a Holocaust denier in two thousand and fucking thirteen. None whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/79 "2013-09-21T18:27:23Z")
Oh, I agree. I have nothing but contempt for such scum. They are the heirs of a ‘philosophy’ that is responsible for butchering my family. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178/80 "2013-09-21T18:51:15Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > That’s a crappy definition of trolling. > > Then are the hardcore evangelical Christians trolling by proseltyzing on the boards? I’d say no, even though they know they’ll provoke a response. They’re trying to spread their message. You’ve made a jump to a bit of a non sequitur here, though the fault may lie with my word choice. Hardcore evangelical Christians aren’t posting for the purpose of pissing people off. I probably shouldn’t have used the phrase “provoke a response” as it is too vague, deliberately posting to push people’s buttons might be a better phrasing of what I meant. My point, poorly worded as it was, is that trolling doesn’t require that one post things one doesn’t actually believe. It is entirely possible to fully believe everything you write and still be trolling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gack/669178.md?page=5)