# Gaelic in English **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992 "2005-11-14T15:16:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/21 "2005-11-15T21:18:50Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > “Crack” is actually an English word (same one as makes up “cracker”), and is occasionally spelled “craic” to make it look pseudo-Gaelic. Errrr, is this a statement of fact, or an assertion? Even if the two words have related etymological roots, everything seems to point to ‘craic’ coming from Irish usage, including a presence in the Irish language. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/22 "2005-11-15T22:05:31Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > English is a real melange of other languages anyway. As is any other language. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/23 "2005-11-15T22:20:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Errrr, is this a statement of fact, or an assertion? Even if the two words have related etymological roots, everything seems to point to ‘craic’ coming from Irish usage, including a presence in the Irish language. Actually, everything seems to point to “craic” coming from English or Scots. “Crack” meaning “chat, news, boasting” dates back to the 1400s, while “craic” doesn’t show up in wide usage until the 1980s, and wasn’t in Dineen’s 1927 Irish-English dictionary. As for the word being found in modern Irish, borrowings can go the other way, too. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/24 "2005-11-15T22:31:44Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > Who’s we? In Connemara they do, all the time. Damn straight, don’t ask the old guy with the missing teeth and the border collie directions to your Great Aunt’s house when you are in Rosmuck. That’s one of the many lessons I’ve learned in my life. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/25 "2005-11-15T23:23:08Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Irish people call their language “Irish” not “Gaelic”. Beg pardon? Isn’t the government of Ireland using the term Gaelic? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/26 "2005-11-15T23:32:09Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > Actually, everything seems to point to “craic” coming from English or Scots. At that point, you’ve already threatened to breach the boundary between dialect and language. If anyone had a good etymology for ‘craic’, I’d like to see it. > [@Monty](#): > > Beg pardon? Isn’t the government of Ireland using the term Gaelic? In the English language, it’s called Irish…in the Irish language, it’s called mumble mumble…In any case, the comment was about Irish _people_, who most certainly call the language Irish. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/27 "2005-11-15T23:42:40Z")
> [@](#): > > At that point, you’ve already threatened to breach the boundary between dialect and language. Er, huh? > [@](#): > > If anyone had a good etymology for ‘craic’, I’d like to see it. There’s a perfectly good etymology for “craic”. It comes from the Scots and English word “crack”. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/28 "2005-11-15T23:44:32Z")
> [@](#): > > in the Irish language, it’s called mumble mumble. Irish Gaelic == Gaeilge. Scots Gaelic == Gàidhlig Manx Gaelic == Gaelg or Gailck. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/29 "2005-11-16T00:40:59Z")
> [@max power](#): > > hmm, i realise the different regions in ireland have different pronunciations, but in the irish i learned (in dublin) uisce beatha is pronounced _ishka baha_ Do tell. I posted on the strength of **Pookah** ’s statement > [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > Uisce Bhata roughly pronounced “Ooshke Wata” and Anglicised to “whiskey”. It means “water of life” I’ll let you two settle it between yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/30 "2005-11-16T00:48:02Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > In the English language, it’s called Irish…in the Irish language, it’s called mumble mumble…In any case, the comment was about Irish _people_, who most certainly call the language Irish. I thought the government was composed of people, but I could be wrong. 😃 Just kidding, of course. And they most certainly call it Gaelic too, IIRC from my short tenure on that beautiful isle. So to assert that Irish people actually don’t refer to the language as Gaelic is a positive assertion, one for which I would like to see a cite. That’s pretty much what I was asking. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/31 "2005-11-16T00:49:41Z")
I noticed a semantic parallel between Irish _craic_ ‘chat’ etc. and Uzbek _gap_, which originally meant speech, talk, chat, but has become an all-purpose word meaning ‘issue’, ‘item’, ‘problem’, ‘what’s happening’, ‘thing’, etc. A common Uzbek greeting: _nima gaplar_ ‘what’s up?’ (literally “what are the talks?”) I usually translate _gap_ as “issue.” ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/32 "2005-11-16T01:06:28Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > Apparently the mixing of the Celtic and the Roman populations in (present-day) France in late antiquity was more thorough than the mixing of Anglo-Saxons and the Celts in the early middle ages. The mixing of populations might have been more thorough, but there are actually few words of celt origin in the french language (I googled but was unable to find any precise info or figure. Maybe I should have bought this etymology book the other day). So these words imported into english must have been an exception amongst exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/33 "2005-11-16T02:57:54Z")
Words of non-Goidelic Celtic origin in English I took these from etymologies in the _American Heritage Dictionary_. A lot of the words are simply listed as “Celtic” with no further identification. These would be either Insular Celtic like Brythonic or Gaelic, or Continental Celtic that got into Latin. Many of those words may date from the period when Northern Italy was Celtic-speaking (Cisalpine Gaul). How many of the Gaulish words can you recognize in modern French, **clairobscur**? “Celtic” back, bile, billet, billon, bray, brocade, broccoli, broché, brochet, brochure, brock, brocket, carpenter, crag, currach, drab, frown, gob, goblet, gouge, gravel, hog, javelin, lees, limber, mine, mineral, pot, sapsago, scourge, socket, swage, talus, ton, trap, trappings, tun, valet, varlet, vassal, vavasor, walnut. Gaulish alewife, andiron, arpent, beak, bitumen, bran, briar, brusque, budget, bulge, bushel, cade, car, career, cargo, caricature, carry, carriage, cay, charge, chariot, druid, garter, imbroglio, league, lozenge, omasum, quay, rhodora, ruche, tan, tawny, tench, truant. Welsh bard, bogie, bogle, boogyman, bugbear, cist, coracle, corgi, cromlech, crowd, eisteddfod, flannel, flummery, gull, kibe, pendragon, penguin, tor. Breton bijou, coble, darn, dolmen, mavis, menhir. Cornish brill, bugaboo, porbeagle, vug, wrasse. Welsh, Breton, and Cornish are the three Brythonic languages descended from ancient British. Gaulish was also P-Celtic like Brythonic, while the Goidelic languages are Q-Celtic, e.g. Irish _cúig_ vs. Welsh _pump_ ‘5’. I believe English dialectal _brock_ ‘badger’ is one of the rare words borrowed into English directly from ancient British. “Crag” could be from either Scots Gaelic or Welsh. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/34 "2005-11-16T03:06:22Z")
> [@Slithy Tove](#): > > Northwest of Atlanta, I was at a French-chateau themed winery that had an Irish-themed pub We will traveling to northern Georgia soon and my siter loves all things Irish. Can you tell me what and were this is? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/35 "2005-11-16T04:16:36Z")
clairobscur writes: \> The mixing of populations might have been more thorough, but there are \> actually few words of celt origin in the french language (I googled but was \> unable to find any precise info or figure. Maybe I should have bought this \> etymology book the other day). So these words imported into english must \> have been an exception amongst exceptions. Well, no, actually. The lists I’ve seen of English words of (ultimately) Celtic origin showed that there are a lot of words in English derived from Gaulish via French. These words tended to be noticeably more commonly used in English than the words that came into English directly from Irish, Welsh, etc. Indeed, a lot of the words that came into English directly from Irish, Welsh, etc. are words for things that are obviously “Celtic” things: brogue, claymore, leprechaun, shamrock, plaid, whiskey, corgi, tor, etc. and are not really words for “common” objects. The English words of Celtic origin that came via Franch tend to be much more common words. I think you underestimate the number of French words of Celtic origin. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/36 "2005-11-16T06:40:23Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > English words originating from Irish Gaelic: > Back… Is “back” really from Gaelic? All the sources I can find indicate it’s from Anglo-Saxon (see [here](http://www.bartleby.com/61/95/B0009500.html), for example.) > [@Excalibre](#): > > On the other hand, the great majority of English words come from Latin (which is, of course, not English’s genetic ancestor) but similar degrees of borrowing are not uncommon in other languages either. Is it really the “great majority”? I thought it was about 50-50 Anglo-Saxon or Germanic vs. French and/or Latin. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/37 "2005-11-16T10:27:36Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Do tell. I posted on the strength of **Pookah** ’s statementI’ll let you two settle it between yourselves. Shrug. **Max power** probably has it right and correct. I’m just a blow-in here anyway. Mind you. I think “wata” and “baha” are pretty close, I just kind of “transliterated” what I thought I heard and I’m not sure it’s that exact a science. Perhaps the person I spoke to had a lisp. The amount of times I have had to deal with German tourist wanted to know the _correct_\* way to pronounce bodhran because they have heard conflicting information. \*It’s correctly pronounced “drum”. If we’re being nice. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/38 "2005-11-16T11:05:47Z")
Sort of on the original topic. **Seosamh** mentions the Irish diminuitive “-een” or “-in”. At least in this part of Ireland that will also tend to get tacked after English words to make English-Irish hybrids. Examples are a “drapeen”, a small drop (usually of the aforementioned whiskey. And usually not so small) or lovin (“lovey” , a term of endearment). But it can be stuck after just about anything. Recently I heard two seventy-plus ladies refer to themselves as “girleens”. ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/39 "2005-11-16T12:12:42Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So to assert that Irish people actually don’t refer to the language as Gaelic is a positive assertion, one for which I would like to see a cite. That’s pretty much what I was asking. From wiki : * * * The language is sometimes referred to in English as Gaelic (IPA: /ˈgeɪlɪk/), or Irish Gaelic. or Erse. This has generally been the common name for the language in the Irish diaspora. Within Ireland proper, it has inevitably acquired political significance. Referring to the language as “Gaelic” suggests that the language is as distant and unrelated to modern Irish life as the civilization of the ancient Gaels. ## Calling it Irish, on the hand, indicates that it is and should be the proper national language of the Irish people, and this is the generally accepted term among scholars and in the Irish Constitution. I went to school in Ireland for 14 years and I learned ‘Irish’ not Gaelic. The only place I see it called ‘Gaelic’ is on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992/40 "2005-11-16T12:58:25Z")
> [@Nic2004](#): > > We will traveling to northern Georgia soon and my siter loves all things Irish. Can you tell me what and were this is? > Thanks It was at the Chateau Elan by Braselton. Irish peasant cooking at investment banker prices. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gaelic-in-english/330992.md?page=3)