# Gallons of Galleons - The economy of Harry Potter **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 15, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653 "2003-07-15T14:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/1 "2003-07-15T14:26:36Z")
So, what _is_ the exchange rate between Gringots and Muggle Currency? I have been trying to work it out, and have had a fairly hard time. The main problem for me is the inconsistancy. When it comes to galleons the variation in prices can vary quite wildly, Harrys wand costs 7 galleons for example, is that not very cheap if Hermione got 10 galleons from her parents to buy herself a birthday present? In OotP at one point Harry is walking around with more than 10 galleons in his purse. Anyhow, I offer two things in this thread. One my own suggested exchange rate, and two a full record of prices mentioned in books 1-5. The book 5 quotes will be in a spoiler box, none of the others will. I haven’t included monetary refernces such as “he hasn’t got two knuts to rub together” etc. I realise the conversions should probably be into GBP, but for the greatest ease of the greatest number of posters, perhaps we could use USD? My suggested exchange rate: 1 galleon ~= 10 Dollars 1 Sickle ~= 1.5 Dollar 1 Knut ~= 50 cents This obviously does _not_ gel with the galleons:sickles:knuts ratio as explained by Hagrid, but I don’t have a problem with that. So, for comparison a bottle of Butterbeer in the Hogs Head would cost about 3 dollars as would membership in SPEW, you would get a nice new quill about 10 dollars. 50 cents for the newspaper sounds about right, they don’t have much competition it seems. At 10 dollars per galleon, Mr Weasley was fined 500 dollars for the car escapade, Omnoculars cost about 100 dollars, and the twins combined life savings at the time of the World Cup was about 370 bucks. This means that wands cost very little, but perhaps since everyone has to have one they are a “day-to-day” item? More suggestions please! 🙂 Cites: > [@](#): > > **Philosophers Stone** > > “Give him five Knuts” - Hagrid of the Daily Prophed deilvery owl. > In book 5, Hermione pays only one knut, perhaps it costs more to have delivered to islands in the middle of the sea? > > “Seventeen silver Sickles to a Galleon and twenty-nine Knuts to a Sickle, it’s easy enough.” - Hagrid at Gringotts > > Dragon liver, seventeen Sickles an ounce - In Diagon Alley, described as expensive. > > Harry himself examined silver unicorn horns at twenty-one Galleons each and minuscule, glittery-black beetle eyes (five Knuts a scoop). - Diagon Alley > > He paid seven gold Galleons for his wand. - Harry at Ollivanders > > Not wanting to miss anything, he got some of everything and paid the woman eleven silver Sickles and seven bronze Knuts. - Harry at the Hogwarts Express sweet-trolly. > > Flaming Christmas puddings followed the turkey. Percy nearly broke his teeth on a silver sickle embedded in his slice. - Hogwarts Christmas Party > [@](#): > > **Chamber of Secrets** > > There was a very small pile of silver Sickles inside, and just one gold Galleon. - On opening the Weasley vault at Gringotts. > > … today fined fifty Galleons for bewitching a Muggle car. - Arthur Weasley > > “Bet you five Galleons the next one dies.” - Draco re. the attacks on muggles > [@](#): > > **Prisoner of Azkaban** > > Seven hundred galleons! Most of it’s gone on this trip, but they’re going to buy me a new wand for next year." - Ron speaking of Daily Prophet Draw prize money > > “Eleven Sickles,” said Stan, “but for fifteen you get 'or chocolate, and for fifteen you get an ‘ot water bottle an’ a toofbrush in the color of your choice.” - Price of the Knight Bus > > “I’ve still got ten Galleons,” she said, checking her purse. “It’s my birthday in September, and Mum and Dad gave me some money to get myself an early birthday present.” - Hermione > > “[Dumbledore] wouldn’t spend hundreds of Galleons on me.” - Harry re. his Firebolt. > > “Penelope and I have got a bet on,” he told the team. “Ten Galleons on the outcome of the match!” - Percy > [@](#): > > **Goblet of Fire** > > Obviously, the thousand galleon prize for the Tournament. > > “Let’s see … a Galleon on Ireland to win?” - Mr Weasley, betting with a disapointed Ludo Bagman > > “We’ll bet thirty-seven Galleons, fifteen Sickles, three Knuts” - The twins, Mr Weasley refers to it as all their savings. > > “I’d pay five Galleons for that!” - Bagman is very impressed with the twins Fake Wand > > “Bargain - ten Galleons each.” - Omnoculars at the world cup > > “And so Dobby is a free elf, sir, and Dobby gets a Galleon a week and one day off a month!”… “Dumbledore offered Dobby ten Galleons a week, and weekends off,” said Dobby, suddenly giving a little shiver. > > “I thought two Sickles to join - that buys a badge - and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign.” - Hermione > > “… seven Sickles each, a bargain!” - The twins Canary Creams > [@](#): > > **Order of the Phoenix** > > '… the Ministry’s put a ten thousand Galleon price on my head. - Sirius Black > > “If I’m not expelled from Hogwarts, I’ll put in ten Galleons” - Harry at MoM Charity Fountain > > “Harry turned his money-bag upside down and emptied not just ten Galleons, but the whole contents into the pool” - As above, after hearing > > Ten Galleons the lot, then. Dung?’ said Fred. - Buying Class C non-Tradable Substance, Dung wants 20 for his trouble. One or two other references here, but not knowing the going rate for Knarl Quills I didn’t include them as relevant… > > ‘Hermione, they’ve made about twenty-six Galleons already.’ - The twins joke shop > > "Two Galleons each, watch Fred, now!’ - the twins Headless Hats > > He threw a Galleon down on to the table, shook pink confetti out of his hair, and followed Cho out of the door. - Harry paying for two in the tea-shop > > “… it’s five Galleons for your Basic Blaze box and twenty for the Deflagration Deluxe…” - The twins Fireworks > > One Pint of Baruffio’s Brain Elixir - 12 galleons > > Butterbeer - 2 Sickles per bottle in Hogs Head > > Fifteen Sickles and two Knuts - new Quill for Hermione, possibly black and gold > > 11 Sickles for the Knight Bus again > > Hermione pays 1 knut for the Daily Prophet by Owl on numerous occasions. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/2 "2003-07-15T14:56:58Z")
_Money_ magazine actually tried to figure this out, based on the pricing listed on one of the Harry Potter schoolbooks sold for charity. [Their results,](http://money.cnn.com/2001/10/23/saving/wizard_calc/index.htm) with a link to a currency converter. ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/3 "2003-07-15T15:02:06Z")
Well crap, there was a waste of my afternoon ☹ thanks for the link tho **mobo85**. A mod can lock this. ---
**Author:** ![MrThompson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MrThompson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrThompson)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/4 "2003-07-15T16:25:30Z")
In an interview, JKR stated that a Galleon was worth about £5 ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/5 "2003-07-15T18:18:44Z")
Having some experience with the difficulties inherent in converting medieval and early modern wages and prices to modern-day figures, I imagine that any systematic attempt to convert Galleons to Muggle money would run into the same problems. Most wizard products and services don’t exist in our world, and vice versa; others might be scarcer or more commonplace. Furthermore, it’s clearly a very different economic system: **Iteki’s** notes suggest that the gap between rich and poor is much larger in the wizarding world (compare the contents of the Weasley vault to the prices of luxury goods such as the Firebolt), and there’s a large supply of unpaid labor (house-elves) to complicate things. I’d be cautious about any direct conversions. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/6 "2003-07-15T20:38:32Z")
This whole mess is another example of Rowling’s poor craftsmanship. As I said in an earlier thread, she’s an excellent storyteller but only a fair author – at best. > [@](#): > > \*\*Dragon liver, seventeen Sickles an ounce - In Diagon Alley, described as expensive. \*\* Here’s a prime example of her sloppiness. Seventeen Sickles is supposed to be one Galleon. You’ll never figure out how much things “cost” in Harry Potter because Rowling didn’t give much thought to the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/7 "2003-07-15T20:54:17Z")
The 14 sickles, 3 knuts = $3.99 the article cited above mentions is reasonably consistent with the UK version too, where it equals £2.50. It would, however, suggest that a galleon is a little over £3, and not £5 as suggested. That being said, I can’t really get too worked up over this. Rowling was obviously poking a bit of fun at predecimalization British currency (12 pence to the shilling, 20 shillings to the pound, and a guinea was a pound and a shilling). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/8 "2003-07-15T21:46:37Z")
Funny, I was just thinking about posting something about Hogwart’s economy. But I thought of it last night as I was drifting off to sleep. May as well ask it here. Who pays the students’ tuition at Hogwarts? The Dursley’s sure don’t! Is Harry’s tuition paid out of his parents’ hoard? What happens to the poor wizarding families? How do their kids leard the craft? ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/9 "2003-07-15T22:52:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\*Who pays the students’ tuition at Hogwarts? The Dursley’s sure don’t! Is Harry’s tuition paid out of his parents’ hoard? What happens to the poor wizarding families? How do their kids leard the craft? \*\* I certainly got the impression that Harry’s tuition was paid for by his parents, either from the vault or paid in advance. As far as poor wizard families(eg the Weasleys), maybe there are scholarships or something. though the Weasley family members(aside from Percy) don’t seem to take their studies seriously enough to maintain a scholarship. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/10 "2003-07-15T23:03:48Z")
> [@](#): > > * * * > > ## Dragon liver, seventeen Sickles an ounce - In Diagon Alley, described as expensive. > > Here’s a prime example of her sloppiness. Seventeen Sickles is supposed to be one Galleon Given a non-decimalized currency, I could buy (heh) this being used to make the price ‘sound’ lower and thusly be a seemingly better deal. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/11 "2003-07-16T01:02:59Z")
They don’t give the weight of galleons and sickles, but wouldn’t their exchange rate to muggle currency be based flatly on bullion prices? ---
**Author:** ![Quantum\_Butterfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e79b87/32.png) [@Quantum\_Butterfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quantum_Butterfly)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/12 "2003-07-16T01:13:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Posted by Truth Seeker_ > This whole mess is another example of Rowling’s poor craftsmanship. As I said in an earlier thread, she’s an excellent storyteller but only a fair author – at best. You hit the nail right on the head, **Truth Seeker** , if you’ll pardon my cliche. It seems to me as if Rowling didn’t really come up with a firm value system for HP currency; she just writes down whatever looks right. It doesn’t seem to have hurt her sales any, though. Which brings up an interesting point… which is the better author, the one who makes an impeccably crafted world or the one who makes a sloppier world but presents it better? ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/13 "2003-07-16T02:50:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5-HT \* > \*\*I certainly got the impression that Harry’s tuition was paid for by his parents, either from the vault or paid in advance. As far as poor wizard families(eg the Weasleys), maybe there are scholarships or something. though the Weasley family members(aside from Percy) don’t seem to take their studies seriously enough to maintain a scholarship. \*\* Maybe that’s why the Weasleys are so poor - they have to put seven kids through school. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/14 "2003-07-16T03:13:50Z")
Remember that in Rowling’s novels, the wizarding world is a complete, underground society and economy that only touches the Muggle world at a few limited points. Wizards only need to worry about the exchange rate of galleons to pounds if they need to do shopping in Muggle stores, etc. How much of that they do is unclear. In the first book I assumed that the meals served in the Hogwarts dining hall are simply created by magic. Later we learned that the food is in fact prepared by house-elves in the basement, and magically transported upstairs. This suggests that the food itself, the raw ingredients, had to come from somewhere. There are some wizards in the business of growing herbs for magical purposes, but there does not seem to be any such thing as a wizard farmer, growing crops for market. If there isn’t, then all food wizards eat must be purchased from Muggles, and that would require an established system of currency exchange. Ditto with a long list of manufactured goods which wizards use but do not make. Perhaps Gringott’s has a Muggle front-bank for acquiring pounds, which then are sent on to the Diagon Alley headquarters for exchange? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/15 "2003-07-16T07:30:08Z")
But **is** the wizarding community truly separate from the Muggle community? When matters of public safety are raised, Cornelius Fudge is only too happy to alert the Muggle Prime Minister. And in _Order of the Phoenix_, Vernon Dursley goes off the deep end when he hears about the Ministry of Magic. “_People like you in **government**? Oh this explains everything, everything, no wonder the country’s going to the dogs. . . ._” Odd, though, that the letter that came from the Ministry in _Chamber of Secrets_ didn’t rouse the same concerns. . . . Anyway, what’s the deal? Do the Ministry of Magic profess even a token allegiance to the Crown? ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/16 "2003-07-16T07:31:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Quantum Butterfly \* > \*\*Which brings up an interesting point… which is the better author, the one who makes an impeccably crafted world or the one who makes a sloppier world but presents it better? \*\* It’s kind of a false dichotomy. There’s really no excuse for being so sloppy since for less than 100 bucks U.S. you can buy software that will help you keep everything straight. Rowling is a very talented – and lucky – amateur. Most authors go to enormous effort to learn their craft before getting published. She didn’t, and it shows. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/17 "2003-07-16T14:22:28Z")
So is their money based on something that cannot be created by magic as, if you will forgive me, latinum is valuable in Star Trek because it cannot be replicated? ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/18 "2003-07-28T20:23:50Z")
Good question, **carnivorousplant** , since in Order of the Phoenix Hermione created counterfeit Galleons that apparently were indistinguishable from the real thing. Given that and leprechaun gold, one has to question the usability of the whole system. ---
**Author:** ![Arien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arien)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/19 "2003-07-28T21:25:08Z")
**Fiver** , I didn’t think she actually created them, just that she adapted ones she already had. But then she would have had to part with 30 galleons of her own. Hermione doesn’t strike me as selfish or greedy, but it seems unlikely, if galleons are supposed to be worth about 5 pounds. ---
**Author:** ![qwanderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ea924/32.png) [@qwanderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qwanderer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653/20 "2003-07-29T01:49:15Z")
One point: I think that the Gringotts goblins could tell the difference between their gold and the coins Hermione made, so the students would get in trouble if they spent the Galleons. But what really makes the system unstable is the existence of the Philosopher’s Stone. In the wrong hands, it even presents a danger to the balance of the Muggle economy. Another point: Perhaps Ministry employees are entitled to free education for their children. I know a similar system is putting me through school. And those who don’t, live closer to the Muggle world, and don’t have to deal with the rift in the Wizard economy as much. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gallons-of-galleons-the-economy-of-harry-potter/188653.md?page=2)