# Game 3 at Fenway, WTF?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2003, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130 "2003-10-13T05:44:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/41 "2003-10-13T17:52:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*[http://www.allamericanspeakers.com/speakerbio/Don\_Zimmer.php](http://www.allamericanspeakers.com/speakerbio/Don_Zimmer.php) > > Sounds career ending to me.\*\* Call me nutty, but to me “career ending” means you never play again. As the quote itself says, he was hit in 1953, came back in 1954, and even appeared in the 1955 World Series. But that’s not all. He also played from 1956-1965, with a high of 477 AB in 1961, a full eight years after the beaning. That’s certainly not career ending. Cmon, **World Eater**! He played for another 12 years in the majors. Also, I would suspect that when one says Zimmer couldn’t hit a damn, one is referring to his major league career, not his minor league career. This would leave his stats in the American Association out of the discussion. (He hit .235 over those 12 seasons, although he was an All Star with the 1961 Cubs.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Obvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Mr.Obvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Obvious)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/42 "2003-10-13T17:55:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobLibDem \* > \*\*To his credit, Zimmer has apologized for his role in the incident. I have heard no reports of Pedro or Manny doing the same. This shows the difference in class between the two organizations. \*\* Bob, you are absolutely on the mark with that comment. The Yankees are a class act organization all the way. Of course by class act, I mean they have raging whack job players who beat the shit out of Fenway Park employees and try to stomp their head in with metal cleats. ---
**Author:** ![terd\_ferguson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@terd\_ferguson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terd_ferguson)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/43 "2003-10-13T18:04:51Z")
This, I thought, was interesting. [Here is the link.](http://www.espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/031013.html) > [@](#): > > BOSTON – One day after his fight with Pedro Martinez during Game 3 of the Red Sox-Yankees series, Don Zimmer choked back tears and told a room filled with reporters that he was embarrassed by what happened. “I’m embarrassed for the Yankees, the Red Sox, the fans, the umpires and my family,” he said. “That’s all I have to say, I’m sorry.” ---
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/44 "2003-10-13T18:09:48Z")
**terd\_ferguson** you realize that was a joke, right? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/45 "2003-10-13T18:13:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Call me nutty, but to me “career ending” means you never play again. As the quote itself says, he was hit in 1953, came back in 1954, and even appeared in the 1955 World Series. But that’s not all. He also played from 1956-1965, with a high of 477 AB in 1961, a full eight years after the beaning. That’s certainly not career ending. Cmon, **World Eater**! He played for another 12 years in the majors. \*\* All right I’ll concede your point, but it was obviously career _altering_, and a shot to the ribs would have most likely been preferred. None the less, to say it was the best thing that could have happened to him is makes me think that **Airman** himself was beaned a bit too hard at one point in his life. Some new stuff from ESPN page 2 > [@](#): > > "I said I’m sorry, but the only thing I’m sorry about is that I didn’t knock that skinny little SOB’s butt clear into the Charles River. And I would have done it, too, if he hadn’t caught me off guard and tripped me. I was expecting him to put up his dukes and fight like a real man would do in that situation and instead he pulls some shifty little move you wouldn’t expect from a 10-year-old girl or even Bill Lee. [http://www.espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/031013.html](http://www.espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/031013.html) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/46 "2003-10-13T18:15:00Z")
Yeah. The minor leagues. Big flirkin difference between AA and the Majors. Lots of people hit minor league pitchers like gangbusters but can’t cut it in the Majors. And as was pointed out, he played for the Mets in 1962. So, no, it wasn’t career ending. Anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/47 "2003-10-13T18:16:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NYR407 \* > \*\*Cite please. Last I read Nelson was the agressor in the melee and Garcia jumped into the bullpen to join in on the beating. Where is your souce that the groundskeeper (Williams?) started it? Didn’t the Boston Police back up the grounskeepers story? > > \*\* Here’s the CITE: [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/baseball/mlb/specials/postseason/2003/10/12/bullpen.brawl.ap/index.html](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/baseball/mlb/specials/postseason/2003/10/12/bullpen.brawl.ap/index.html) > [@](#): > > Speaking before Game 4 was rained out on Sunday, though, Nelson stood by his claim that Williams “got in my face” and instigated the fighting. > > “Obviously, the Boston media is going to make it out like we attacked the guy,” Nelson said in the Yankees clubhouse. “I was basically defending myself. … I’ve been playing the game for 12 years. Don’t you think I would know better than to attack somebody?” Now before you start adding the Mayor of Boston’s speculative trash talk (only the pitchers & the groundskeeper qualify as primary sources) to your own, here’s what NYC’s mayor was quoted as saying [http://cbsnewyork.com/news88/yankees/yankees\_story\_285161155.html](http://cbsnewyork.com/news88/yankees/yankees_story_285161155.html) > [@](#): > > NEW YORK (AP) Boston Red Sox ace Pedro Martinez should have been arrested for throwing 72-year-old Yankees coach Don Zimmer to the ground during Game 3 of the American League Championship Series, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Sunday. > > “If that happened in New York we would have arrested the perpetrator,” Bloomberg said. “Nobody should throw a 70-year-old man to the ground, period. You start doing that pretty soon you’re going to throw a 61-year-old man to the ground, and I have a big vested interest in that.” I think we have to factor out both of the elected officials statements as fluff to keep them elected another term. As for the Boston Police, I don’t know what doughnut shop they were watching the game from, but they didn’t show up until 5 minutes after the scuffle had started. While there is not CITE to a direct broadcast, the YES network’s female reporter on the scene called Fenway Security “A Joke” compared to Yankee Stadium security. Simply put, if there were 3 cops in the bullpen, the way the Yankees provided security to Boston when they visited, then it wouldn’t have happened. Nelson would have looked at the cop, pointed to out-of-control towel-boy, and a nightstick and cuffs would have ended his groundskeeping career. But then, that just asks the question: Is Boston even Capable of providing sufficient competant security to handle the series? God Knows they couldn’t even keep some Saudis with boxcutters off of flights out of Logan two years ago. We paid for that lapse of security too. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/48 "2003-10-13T18:16:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NYR407 \* > \*\ ***terd\_ferguson** you realize that was a joke, right? \*\* Where? ---
**Author:** ![terd\_ferguson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@terd\_ferguson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terd_ferguson)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/49 "2003-10-13T18:18:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NYR407 \* > \*\ ***terd\_ferguson** you realize that was a joke, right? \*\* All I said, fella, was that it was interesting. You don’t need to get all up in a huff. Lighten up, Francis. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/50 "2003-10-13T18:27:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*And as was pointed out, he played for the Mets in 1962. So, no, it wasn’t career ending. > > Anything else? \*\* And Grant Hill’s career hasn’t ended either after he snapped it in Detroit, but any person with half a brain can read between the lines. Anyway, enjoy your little technicality victory, hopefully one day you’ll get crippled by a car and go on to do this world some good. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/51 "2003-10-13T18:32:25Z")
_snapped his ankle_\* And I’ll just add for the knee jerkers around here, that I don’t actually wish harm on you, just showing the idiocy of a statement like that. ---
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/52 "2003-10-13T18:35:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by terd\_ferguson \* > \*\*All I said, fella, was that it was interesting. You don’t need to get all up in a huff. > > Lighten up, Francis. \*\* In a huff? Where did I get in a huff? Yes you said it was interesting and you could have added funny to your description too. Apparently **World Eater** didn’t realize it was a joke. FYI, ESPN’s Page 2 has tons of joke articles that take a lighthearted look at situations. If you didn’t see the humor in the article then I can’t help you. **Quietman** so far you have all biased testimony. Would Nelson admit he was guilty? Do you think George would let a YES employee say Nelson was responsible? Show me testimony from someone at the game not employed by George. The Bosox have two Police Officers. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/53 "2003-10-13T18:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _dantheman:_ > He did have 246 AB in the National League and was hit all of three times, but my thinking is that if he were to bat now, he might be tasting some dust. I have no doubt this is true. I certainly don’t think that he would have been pointing at his head if he had to put on a helmet and step into the box against Clemens. > [@](#): > > _dantheman:_ > Never been in a fight? Oh yes. Been beaned. Slid hard into third once and swung at the third baseman. A few other times, too. Of course, the players were smaller, and they didn’t throw the ball as fast or as hard. You just said a mouthful, my friend. My younger brother got hit in the face by a mid-80s fastball and spent 3 days in the hospital. I’ve been hit by 90+ mph fastballs, and it took all my concentration to avoid rubbing it, so charging the mound usually never entered my mind. But there’s something about a fastball around the head. You get a burst of adrenaline from fear that’s very easy to mistake for anger. That’s why I don’t blame Garcia for sliding hard into Walker at 2nd, or Sammy Sosa for bouncing out toward the mound in the direction of Josh Beckett. Heck, I got beaned once _in an intrasquad scrimmage_, and I nearly charged the mound. Idiotic, I know, but it was more of a reaction than a choice. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/54 "2003-10-13T18:58:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NYR407 \* > **Apparently World Eater didn’t realize it was a joke. FYI, ESPN’s Page 2 has tons of joke articles that take a lighthearted look at situations. If you didn’t see the humor in the article then I can’t help you.** Well considering they said it was an exclusive interview and it wasn’t really over the top considering the current circumstances, I expect a good deal of people to get whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/55 "2003-10-13T18:59:24Z")
I also didn’t read to the end, where it becomes especially over the top. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/56 "2003-10-13T19:15:31Z")
Page 2 is nothing **but** a joke. It’s the fake news. It’s the Daily Show portion of ESPN. Plus, it was a column by Jim Caple, not known for his sober outlooks at times. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/57 "2003-10-13T19:23:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Page 2 is nothing **but** a joke. It’s the fake news. It’s the Daily Show portion of ESPN. Plus, it was a column by Jim Caple, not known for his sober outlooks at times. \*\* Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/58 "2003-10-13T20:01:55Z")
If a big out-of-control guy is charging me and getting ready to throw a punch, he’s going down…I don’t care how old he is. I can’t believe that anyone has a problem with what Pedro did. He’s allowed to defend himself. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/59 "2003-10-13T20:53:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*And Grant Hill’s career hasn’t ended either after he snapped it in Detroit, but any person with half a brain can read between the lines. > > Anyway, enjoy your little technicality victory, hopefully one day you’ll get crippled by a car and go on to do this world some good. :rolleyes: \*\* Yeah, it’s a technicality victory. Just admit you were wrong. And really wrong at that. And then you just compound your idiocy by pulling some completely off-base analogy out of your ass. And then go on with some sour grapes whining. Zimmer played twelve more years in the majors, and this was before they had guaranteed contracts. He played with the Dodgers until 1959. With more than 200 ABs every season except 1954, the year he was brought up, and 1956. In 1958 he had 488 ABs. Then he went on to the Cubs for two years, with 368 ABs and 477 ABs respectively. He then played with the Mets and was traded to Cincinnati in 1962. Then back to the Dodgers in 1963 until he went to the Senators midseason. With 321 ABs between the two teams. He finished his career with the Senators in 1964-1965 with 341 ABs and 226 ABs respectively. So, to sum up, after Zimmer was hit he went on to MAKE THE MAJORS and then stay there for 12 seasons. Yeah, it’s just a _technicality_ that his career didn’t end after getting hit. :wally It would be like looking at Willis McGahee’s injury and calling it career ending after he played 10 years in the NFL. :wally ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130/60 "2003-10-13T21:54:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*Yeah, it’s a technicality victory. Just admit you were wrong. And really wrong at that. And then you just compound your idiocy by pulling some completely off-base analogy out of your ass. And then go on with some sour grapes whining. > > Zimmer played twelve more years in the majors, and this was before they had guaranteed contracts. > > He played with the Dodgers until 1959. With more than 200 ABs every season except 1954, the year he was brought up, and 1956. In 1958 he had 488 ABs. > > Then he went on to the Cubs for two years, with 368 ABs and 477 ABs respectively. He then played with the Mets and was traded to Cincinnati in 1962. Then back to the Dodgers in 1963 until he went to the Senators midseason. With 321 ABs between the two teams. He finished his career with the Senators in 1964-1965 with 341 ABs and 226 ABs respectively. > > So, to sum up, after Zimmer was hit he went on to MAKE THE MAJORS and then stay there for 12 seasons. Yeah, it’s just a _technicality_ that his career didn’t end after getting hit. :wally > > It would be like looking at Willis McGahee’s injury and calling it career ending after he played 10 years in the NFL. :wally \*\* Try and keep up, we’re past that point. My real beef was his statement that it was the best thing to ever happen to him. Of course _Airman_ is a big boy and can fight his own battles, so feel free to shut the fuck up anytime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-3-at-fenway-wtf/207130.md?page=4)