# Game devs still don't get it in 2017 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894 "2017-09-09T14:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/21 "2017-09-09T19:44:36Z")
Because online connectivity is something that can be severed at the publisher’s whim, rendering the game ENTIRELY UNPLAYABLE. Some publishers want absolute control over their games, and this is essential holding the game itself hostage. Some games are killed because the profit margins aren’t worth paying those server costs. Gone! Poof! This isn’t just for online multiplayer stuff – everything is lost. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/22 "2017-09-09T20:06:10Z")
> [@Trancephalic](#): > > Because online connectivity is something that can be severed at the publisher’s whim, rendering the game ENTIRELY UNPLAYABLE. Some publishers want absolute control over their games, and this is essential holding the game itself hostage. Some games are killed because the profit margins aren’t worth paying those server costs. Gone! Poof! This isn’t just for online multiplayer stuff – everything is lost. Yeah. On one hand, I understand that some artistic experiences are necessarily time-bound. You can’t get Woodstock back. After Hamilton’s run is done, there will be no more “original Hamilton”. You will never be able to enjoy the original counterstrike as it was in its heyday. _On the other hand_ there is _no fucking reason whatsoever why, say, “Sim City 2015” should be one such experience_. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/23 "2017-09-09T22:09:09Z")
> [@Trancephalic](#): > > Because online connectivity is something that can be severed at the publisher’s whim, rendering the game ENTIRELY UNPLAYABLE. Some publishers want absolute control over their games, and this is essential holding the game itself hostage. Some games are killed because the profit margins aren’t worth paying those server costs. Gone! Poof! This isn’t just for online multiplayer stuff – everything is lost. Could you give us some examples? Because I’ve been using Steam for almost a decade, and I’ve never had a game made unplayable. ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/24 "2017-09-09T22:15:09Z")
> **[DeadGameNews](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzZ8jigea0Ph0pgUgrX5U-Q)** > > Youtube news channel exclusively on dead videogames and / or ones brought back from the dead. > **[Delisted Games](https://delistedgames.com/)** > > Even in the age of digital, nothing lasts forever Steam-specific: [http://delistedgames.com/platforms/pc-steam/](http://delistedgames.com/platforms/pc-steam/) I can go on and on, really ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/25 "2017-09-09T22:46:07Z")
> [@Trancephalic](#): > > Steam-specific: [http://delistedgames.com/platforms/pc-steam/](http://delistedgames.com/platforms/pc-steam/) > > I can go on and on, really I’m not sure this really makes your case very well. Admittedly, I didn’t read all of them, but the first game says it’s being removed from online distribution but it will not affect those who’ve already bought the game; the second is a multiplayer game whose developer is ending support for online play (which sucks, but does happen); and the next several (I stopped reading after about the 7th) aren’t being sold via electronic distribution anymore but are available as free downloads from the developer’s website. ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/26 "2017-09-09T22:52:36Z")
Yes, delisted isn’t necessarily dead, especially for games that predate DRM. But there are dead among them, even if they are available to those who already purchased them. Admittedly this is more an issue with companies like EA that actually own their own servers. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/27 "2017-09-09T23:17:32Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > Know what I play now? Commodore 64 games on an emulator from when I was a kid. It works on anything and the gameplay is classic and still good. Guessing I’m the world champion of Dino Eggs at this point. Devolution! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/28 "2017-09-10T01:09:38Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > I stopped gaming a few years back when Steam inserted itself between me and what I’d bought. I shouldn’t need an internet connection to validate a single-player game that I paid for. I think if those companies could prevent a friend from sitting in your chair and playing a game on your computer they would. As long as the game is installed on your computer, Steam doesn’t require you to be online to play it. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/29 "2017-09-10T01:36:52Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > As long as the game is installed on your computer, Steam doesn’t require you to be online to play it. As you say, but I’ve had a number of problems with Steam when I was without internet for some reason or another. At one point, and I don’t recall the specifics, I could not play any of the Half Life versions I had because it was insisting on connecting first. In any case, the fact is I had a much easier time playing the various games and utilizing mods when Valve’s products were CD based. I’m an old Windows type of user - I like doing things myself without a lot of “help” from the operating system. I want to have raw files that I can store, move around and manipulate. I want to actually own a CD/DVD or a set of files. Maybe this comparison isn’t precise, but it reminds me of the Netflix model. I want to own a movie. Not subscribe to a service which serves it to me for a while, then takes it out of circulation. Or makes significant changes to how it’s delivered. Or becomes so intent on foiling piracy that its precautions make the whole transaction a pain in the ass. Sadly, for me this is what’s happened with regard to gaming. It’s my choice, and my “hoarding of punch cards” still gives me enjoyment, so I’ll live with it. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/30 "2017-09-10T04:39:21Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > This needs to be repeated, over and over, until it sinks in. Don’t like it? The solution is to NOT BUY IT, not to steal it. There are a good number of people on PC gaming forums who practice and legitimately advocate buying a game, and then downloading the game from piraters and not playing the copy you bought, to avoid dealing with the DRM. The fact that anyone would be possessed to do such a thing is testament to the failure of DRM schemes. They are ironically incentivizing piracy in their attempts to prevent it. In the case of Sonic Mania, the DRM has led to some bad press, and widespread rumors that the PC version was delayed past the console version because they foresaw this, which is further bad press and bad PR. By all accounts the game is pretty good, so I think it would be better off if it were in a position to be judged on the merits of the game instead of this side issue. They’ve lost sales due to the DRM, and they haven’t gained anything from it since the game is still pirated. There is no upside. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/31 "2017-09-10T06:57:11Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > As you say, but I’ve had a number of problems with Steam when I was without internet for some reason or another. At one point, and I don’t recall the specifics, I could not play any of the Half Life versions I had because it was insisting on connecting first. Because my son and I share an account, I rarely play with Steam online (so he won’t “accidentally” log me out of the game). I’ve never had any problems. I mean, even EA lets me play _Mass Effect 2_ on Steam, and they’re the biggest assholes in the business. I really think the problem is overstated. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/32 "2017-09-10T14:09:12Z")
Surprised there has been no mention of unauthorised rootkits being put onto customers computers making those computers vulnerable to malware - all in the name of DRM ---
**Author:** ![Mnemnosyne](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mnemnosyne/32/3347_2.png) [@Mnemnosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mnemnosyne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/33 "2017-09-10T16:25:37Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > Funny, I seem to recall Half Life (a Valve product) being distributed on CD and playing it on a PC. I had the sequels and lots of mods, and once Steam was required it screwed up everything. > > Maybe it’s all still do-able and I’m just an old fart. But I’d come back to gaming if it was simpler and didn’t require an internet connection to validate a game I already have on my computer. Same for music and movies - I want to OWN what I’ve paid for and know it’s going to work. Not have it live on a cloud, have to validate my ownership every time I use it and down the road have to pay again to access it when the system changes. I tend to buy anything that’s available on [GOG.com](http://GOG.com) from there instead of Steam these days, even if it’s a little more expensive, cause GOG allows you to fully download any games you buy, and you can always reinstall from that download even fully offline. Also because of their fair price guarantee - if something is priced more expensively in a region other than the US, they may not be allowed to sell it for lower price, but they give you credit to make up the difference. I feel like this is probably the best way to send the ‘don’t use DRM’ message; if people are specifically willing to buy things that way, and do so whenever there’s the option, it should send a clearer message than just pirating things. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The question for me is how we got from, “I can’t buy what I want” to “well then it’s fine to steal it.” My best WAG would be that it’s just so difficult to enforce laws against the theft of digital media. Mostly I think it’s both because it’s difficult to enforce and because it causes little to no harm. A person who considers themselves mostly decent, which is probably the majority of people, doesn’t feel right when they take something from someone else, even if that someone else is a company. They’ve been taught it’s wrong to steal, and it’s something they can understand: if someone steals my car, they think, then I don’t have a car. If they steal my wallet, I have less money. If they steal my TV, I have no TV. Obvious, relatable. The majority of people would be unlikely to complain if someone walks up to their car and makes an exact duplicate of it, then drives off in the duplicate. That doesn’t hurt them. That doesn’t deprive them of anything. Therefore, it’s way less relatable that pirating a game, which deprives nobody of anything (as long as you weren’t going to buy in the first place, at least) is somehow inherently wrong, because most people would not mind if you copied their property, all they care is that they get to keep what’s theirs. I’d say that’s one of the main reasons why in this case it goes easily from ‘I can’t buy what I want’ to ‘so it’s fine to steal it’, because it’s not relatable that it IS stealing in the sense that most people understand it. Sure, they get that _legally_ it’s technically stealing, but it’s not the kind of ‘stealing’ that people really relate to on a personal level, so it generally just doesn’t feel wrong. ---
**Author:** ![drgnrdr07](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71e660/32.png) [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/34 "2017-09-10T17:04:39Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > What is the point? It was less than a _week_ before Denuvo was broken. One of the major reasons for DRM isn’t to protect the game after it has been released, but to protect it from being leaked early. ---
**Author:** ![Shin\_Ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shin\_Ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shin_Ji)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/35 "2017-09-10T18:16:07Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > This needs to be repeated, over and over, until it sinks in. Don’t like it? The solution is to NOT BUY IT, not to steal it. Or do both! Buy the game legit, and if the issues with DRM affect you enough that it’s worth the effort, pirate a copy and play that. ---
**Author:** ![Mnemnosyne](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mnemnosyne/32/3347_2.png) [@Mnemnosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mnemnosyne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/36 "2017-09-10T20:14:55Z")
> [@Shin\_Ji](#): > > Or do both! Buy the game legit, and if the issues with DRM affect you enough that it’s worth the effort, pirate a copy and play that. This seems like a terrible choice, to me. Worst of both worlds, really - it just rewards them for adding the DRM even if it makes the game worse or the experience for the customer worse in some way, while also encouraging pirating. The only way to discourage game publishers from putting this crap onto games is to make sure that games with it do not sell as well as those without. If games without DRM were to be consistently outselling those with it, that’d send a message they won’t ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/37 "2017-09-10T23:11:54Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Because SEGA, morons that they are, decided that in 2017, adding Denuvo Digital Rights Management software was a good idea. Because, you know, apparently selling your game on _Steam_ isn’t enough protection from pirates > […] > Meanwhile, it took a few days before the first cracks of Sonic Mania went up online. So, uh, apparently not on the “Steam isn’t enough protection from pirates?” front, huh? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/38 "2017-09-11T00:43:30Z")
isn’t this the drm that everyone hailed as the ultimate drm a few years ago only for 98 perce4nt of the games that used it had to patch it out because it messed up the games ? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/39 "2017-09-11T02:37:22Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > This needs to be repeated, over and over, until it sinks in. Don’t like it? The solution is to NOT BUY IT, not to steal it. No, what needs to happen is for people to realize this will never happen. No one gives a shit. There are no consequences for doing it, so why would they not do it? It hurts the companies? So what? They want them to lose money, because they are doing something they don’t want. Given the choice between having the game and not having the game, why would they choose not to have the game? The digital world has introduced the “have your cake and eat it to” boycott, where you can boycott a company while still consuming all of their content. The only thing that could stop it would be sufficient risk of something bad happening because you pirated. But that just can’t happen. So the only solution is to stop practices that make people want to pirate your game. People choose to watch movies on Netflix and Amazon Prime rather than pirating them. There are tons of DRM-free games that people choose to buy rather than pirate–even if they’re really old games. People choose to use their libraries rather than just download all their books online. That’s what works. Not trying to get them to choose what is rationally a suboptimal choice of punishing themselves while also punishing the creators. Plus, well, these companies are still huge. Piracy doesn’t actually seem to be hurting them. No one can’t put food on the table because of piracy. Games don’t not get made because of piracy. It’s really hard to argue actual harm. So all you are left with to tell them not to do it is either God or a categorical imperative. And people increasingly don’t believe in either one. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894/40 "2017-09-11T02:41:05Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > So, uh, apparently not on the “Steam isn’t enough protection from pirates?” front, huh? It isn’t, but it doesn’t need to be. It just needs to encourage people to buy stuff, same as Netflix. I don’t know how much stuff I’ve bought on Steam due to sales. Steam is and has always been easy to crack. And, in fact, when it comes to gaming on my Linux box with Wine, I always download cracked versions of the games after I buy them, because I don’t want the hassle to run Steam. It’s less of an issue on my Windows machine, though I did go without it for a long while. I only tried it again when I decided to consider the Steam Controller, to see if I wouldn’t mind it. Still hate restarting my computer, though. Why does it have to tell me it’s updating the app and logging me in? Just do that in the background! Only tell me if I try to launch a game before Steam is ready. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-devs-still-dont-get-it-in-2017/795894.md?page=3)