# Game of Thrones 2.03 "What Is Dead May Never Die" 4/15 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 15, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862 "2012-04-15T17:08:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/1 "2012-04-15T17:08:17Z")
[Episode 1: The North Remembers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646369) [Episode 2: The Night Lands](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=647706) This is the thread for people who want to discuss the show without outside information that may spoil the story from either the books or other sources. Discussion about the current episodes and all previous episodes of the series requires no spoiler box. Which means that there should be no need for the use of any spoiler boxes in this thread. If you are looking for discussions where spoilers are acceptable, please visit the [season 2 closed spoiler](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646499) and [open spoiler](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646497) threads. Don’t argue about the spoiler rules in the thread, take it to the pit if necesary. **Gukamatz** has been moderating these threads because he’s more familiar with the source content than the other cafe society mods. This was his note in the OP of the first thread this season: > [@](#): > > **Moderator’s Amendment:** > > **Spoiler policy for this thread:** > > 1. **Anything** that has not yet been AIRED ON TV is not acceptable in this thread. (This includes webzines, DVD extra content, magazines, speculation based on unaired content and so on.) > 2. Any discussion, comparison or really anything related to the books the show is based on needs to go to the Closed Spoilers thread. (See below) > 3. We follow the US airing schedule. There is no “grace period” for letting the rest of the world catch up. (Like us Europeans, people who DVR the show, stream it later, etc, etc) > > This is in order to allow people who want to ask specific questions and receive specific answers regarding backstory or things they missed, be able to use this thread as a resource. For those who wants limited spoilers - for instance people who have read the books up unto a point but don’t want spoilers for the rest of the books - this is the place to be. Please report information which should not be in the open by using the Report Post tool. > > If you want to ask questions regarding backstory, discuss how the series reflect the books, speculate in the future based on unaired information or otherwise engage in a discussion in an enviroment in which posters are to use their best judgement to decide what is or is not a spoiler, please follow this thread: > [Game of Thrones Season 2 - CLOSED SPOILERS Discussion Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646499) > > For those who want to discuss in a **COMPLETELY** open-spoilers enviroment in which the books, the series, webzines and in short all the information available anywhere is valid and open for discussion, please follow this thread: > [Game of Thrones Season 2 - OPEN SPOILERS Discussion Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646497) > > Meta-discussion of the spoiler policy itself should happen in a separate ATMB thread if really necessary, though I invite people to PM me instead. > > With regards, > Gukumatz > Game Room & IMHO Moderator > Consulting Game of Thrones Moderator We left off with Craster knocking Jon out after he witnessed him giving up his son to what seem to be white walkers. Sam wants to steal one of Craster’s daughters (like a goat!) but Jon quite reasonably does not. Arie and Gendry know each other’s secrets, and whacky hijinks will ensue. Stannis acquired 30 pirate ships as part of a fleet to sail on King’s landing. Tyrion and Cercei had some quality family time together. Danerys is, well, still starving in the desert. We’ve been off to a relatively slow start - but they’re setting up the pieces. It’s not that it’s boring - some of the scenes have had great acting and interesting dialogue - it’s just that there hasn’t been too much to discuss so far. But I suspect things will start moving along. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/2 "2012-04-15T17:21:58Z")
I gotta say i love the title of this episode. Also it’s Arya and Daenerys :). ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/3 "2012-04-15T17:48:37Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I gotta say i love the title of this episode. Also it’s Arya and Daenerys :). And while we’re at it, it’s spell Joffrey…not Goffrey, or Geoffrey, or Geoffry, or however else you want to spell it. Joffrey. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/4 "2012-04-16T02:14:49Z")
It always ends too soon. No Dany, who I am not liking this season and more Sansa who I am. Totally opposite of last season. I wonder if there is going to be a Sansa/Shea payoff later on in the series. That Tryon, he’s a trickly little devil. Varys has gone from veiled threats to veiled compliments. I’ve heard say that Arya doesn’t look like a boy. I think she does. A pretty boy with big doe eyes. She thought she was having trouble sleeping before, how 'bout all that stabby you got in your head now! I knew Goldilocks was gonna get it when he snatched up Gendry’s helmet. You know what would be fun? If Sansa went all psycho and ran around the table during a meal stabbing everyone there in the eye with her fork. Poor Sansa, she didn’t have Yoren telling her not to look. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/5 "2012-04-16T02:21:11Z")
As far as we know the only thing the Lannisters knew about Gendry was the bull helmet, which was the only thing the armorer mentioned when they asked how they could recognize him. It was only Ned and Jon Arryn before him that actually went to meet him. And yes, the kid with blonde curls that got killed looked more like a girl than Arya does. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/6 "2012-04-16T03:01:09Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > As far as we know the only thing the Lannisters knew about Gendry was the bull helmet, which was the only thing the armorer mentioned when they asked how they could recognize him. It was only Ned and Jon Arryn before him that actually went to meet him. And yes, the kid with blonde curls that got killed looked more like a girl than Arya does. However, I wonder if there’s any significance to the fact that the kid who was killed had blonde hair, when we (the viewer) know that all of Robert’s bastards were “black of hair.” ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/7 "2012-04-16T04:06:22Z")
Excellent episode! Renly’s “queen” - is this the first we’ve seen her? I recognize her, but I’m not sure if it’s from a previous episode, or from some other part she played in something unrelated. Though, I was unfamiliar with her tits, which I think I would have remambered. [sic] ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/8 "2012-04-16T04:11:59Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Excellent episode! > > Though, I was unfamiliar with her tits, which I think I would have remambered. [sic] They sure made Renly sic. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/9 "2012-04-16T04:19:03Z")
That’s the first time Margaery has been in an episode. Theon’s scenes were fantastic. I felt really bad for him. Margaery with Renly was hilarious. Yoren went out like a BOSS. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/10 "2012-04-16T04:52:06Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > That’s the first time Margaery has been in an episode. Thanks > [@](#): > > Theon’s scenes were fantastic. I felt really bad for him. Yeah, I had meant to mention that. Theon’s scenes were particularly well written and acted. When he busted out with the “but it was you that gave me away!” bit, I had been yearning for him to yell everything he did. > [@](#): > > Yoren went out like a BOSS. Yes, he did. I had just been recognizing how much I liked the character and the actor, and it was then that I _knew_ he was gonna get off’ed as soon as the Gold Cloaks came. I’m starting to learn how to cope with seeing so many ugly things… (the tits help quite a bit in that regard) ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/11 "2012-04-16T04:54:17Z")
Alas, poor Yoren. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/12 "2012-04-16T05:07:29Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Yoren went out like a BOSS. I bate crossbows. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/13 "2012-04-16T05:43:16Z")
> [@robby](#): > > However, I wonder if there’s any significance to the fact that the kid who was killed had blonde hair, when we (the viewer) know that all of Robert’s bastards were “black of hair.” I don’t think the Goldcloaks/Lannister lackies had been informed that Gendry was a dark-haired boy–whose existence might prove that King Joffrey was the son of the queen’s brother rather than her late husband. Just a little detail that would have been omitted from their orders! They knew about the helmet & Arya’s quick thinking might have convinced them that Gendry was dead. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/14 "2012-04-16T07:00:35Z")
I wish they’d have explored Greyjoy’s plans and motivations more. As it is, I thought that suddenly letting Theon in on the plans, and to attack the north, were just a test to see how he would react and choose his loyalties. But Greyjoy has lots of reason to hate the North - Stark was the one who crushed his rebellion, and while the viewers know that, it would’ve been nice to emphasize it more. Instead it seems more like “it’s chaotic out there, and well, we’re dicks by nature, so let’s be dicks!” more than a more relatable story of revenge. I also thought the Tyrion’s test, to see who’d leak to the queen, went too fast. It seemed instantaneous - Varys and Littlefinger probably didn’t even have time to go rat him out to the queen even if they wanted to. It almost seemed too easy, too, as if Tyrion were getting double played - for instance if Varys somehow spied on his plan, and then leaked the wrong destination to the queen. I suppose that’s still a possibility. But Pycelle’s claims of loyalty to house Lannister seemed like enough of a confession. I have to say I can’t find much interesting about the Shae storyline. They seemed to acknowledge that her purpose in the story is to eventually be a weak point for Tyrion. I suppose it makes sense - it’s hard to get a smart, pragmatic, charming guy in too much of a bind, and having a vulnerable loved one is a good ticket. But I can’t say I find the character interesting at all or the scenes. I’m also having a hard time buying her as enigmatic or otherwise stunning enough to justify Sansa is in such a shitty situation, but I’m having a hard time sympathizing too much since she was shown to be such a bitch in the first season. I know - some of it is simply the way she was raised to essentially be as good a subservient wife as she could, but she was also just deliberately cruel, to her septa for example. I wonder if Mormont understands that Craster is giving away his babies to white walkers, or if he just thinks he’s killing them. Yoren did get to go out like a badass, too bad the dregs didn’t do much to help him. ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/15 "2012-04-16T07:03:17Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Excellent episode! > > Renly’s “queen” - is this the first we’ve seen her? I recognize her, but I’m not sure if it’s from a previous episode, or from some other part she played in something unrelated. Though, I was unfamiliar with her tits, which I think I would have remambered. [sic] Natalie Dormer played Anne Bolelyn in Showtimes The Tudors…where her boobs were quite memorable. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/16 "2012-04-16T07:24:04Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I wonder if Mormont understands that Craster is giving away his babies to white walkers, or if he just thinks he’s killing them. It seemed like he was well aware of the arrangement. He said that the boys were an offering to them, and that’s what has kept them at bay. Though he was aware that with winter coming, that deal won’t last, since he said that Jon would probably be seeing more of them. > [@ryan](#): > > Natalie Dormer played Anne Bolelyn in Showtimes The Tudors…where her boobs were quite memorable. That’s it! Except I watched that show, boobless, on BBC America. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/17 "2012-04-16T11:33:50Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Excellent episode! > > Renly’s “queen” - is this the first we’ve seen her? I recognize her, but I’m not sure if it’s from a previous episode, or from some other part she played in something unrelated. Though, I was unfamiliar with her tits, which I think I would have remambered. [sic] > [@ryan](#): > > Natalie Dormer played Anne Bolelyn in Showtimes The Tudors…where her boobs were quite memorable. I was going to say that. Only Dormer somehow seems younger in this than she did in The Tudors. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/18 "2012-04-16T12:47:40Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But Greyjoy has lots of reason to hate the North - Stark was the one who crushed his rebellion, and while the viewers know that, it would’ve been nice to emphasize it more. Hmm, he pretty much throws it in Theons face that the Starks killed his real brothers every single time they talk. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/19 "2012-04-16T15:13:53Z")
On a related note, [Maisie Williams](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3586035/)(the actress who plays Arya Stark) [turned 15](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maisie_Williams)yesterday. Happy birthday! ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862/20 "2012-04-16T15:36:08Z")
That girl is 15? I would not have guessed it. I hope she gets Needle back and puts all her dancing and acrobatic training to good use in an Errol Flynn type sword fight. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-03-what-is-dead-may-never-die-4-15-no-book-spoilers/618862.md?page=2)