# Game of Thrones 2.04 "Garden of Bones" 4/22 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2012, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567 "2012-04-22T07:52:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/21 "2012-04-23T13:54:49Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s interesting that Tyrion can so casually threaten to have Bronn kill people, though. Bronn, though capable, is still a common mercenary - it seems he’s an unlikely match for a knight. It’s true that we’ve seen him best a knight before, but not in a way that would allow Tyrion to act as if he’s the biggest badass in the land. Bronn’s head of the palace guard. Presumably the threat was that the guard would kill the knight, rather then Bronn personally. > [@](#): > > Incidentally, I’m not sure it’s really consistent that Joffrey was left helpless and angry at Tyrion. He threatened his own mother with death after she slapped him, and what Tyrion did was probably just as bad. If Joffrey was to kill Tyrion, Tywin would step in and it would be the end of him - but he seems arrogant, cruel, and drunk off his own power enough to not think that one through and simply execute Tyrion, or at least otherwise punish him. Joffery/Cersi don’t have much in the way of armed supporters left beyond the 7(?) knights of the Kingsguard (and I guess Cersi’s boy-toy). Most of the Lannister troops took off to go fight the Starks, Tyrion has the palace guard and his merry band of barbarians. That seems to be it for armed men in Kings Landing. So irregardless of what Joffery orders, Tyrions in effective control (which is why he’s been happily throwing his weight around for the last two episodes). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/22 "2012-04-23T13:55:48Z")
> [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](#): > > As far as Melisandre’s magic goes, it did take me by surprise in the books. Martin seems like to do this, carry on with the politics of the world for ages and then just throw in some magic to remind you you’re reading a fantasy novel. I too wasn’t sure how I felt about it. I hope you realize you are risking 10 years in the dungeon for using the word “books” in your post! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/23 "2012-04-23T14:02:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Am I the only one who isn’t impressed? His role is fine and all, but most of it seems contrived. And his faux British accent is really annoying. I can do a better British accent than that. > > As for the show, I continue to like this season much better than the first, although I still don’t know who many of the people are or how they relate to each other. I definitely feel like I’m missing a good 1/3 of the whole “experience” because of that. > > “House Bullwinkle”. That’s a good one! 🙂 You could always ask here or in the closed spoilers thread 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/24 "2012-04-23T14:04:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I hope you realize you are risking 10 years in the dungeon for using the word “books” in your post! 😉 Oh heck, I forgot myself there. 😛 I hope I didn’t spoil anything. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Am I the only one who isn’t impressed? His role is fine and all, but most of it seems contrived. And his faux British accent is really annoying. I can do a better British accent than that. I know what you mean, but then I just remind myself that this isn’t England. They can have whatever kind of accents they want in Casterly Rock. Maybe that’s just me being a Game of Thrones apologist though. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/25 "2012-04-23T14:06:08Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Bronn’s head of the palace guard. Presumably the threat was that the guard would kill the knight, rather then Bronn personally. I’m not so sure about that. Trant is out of shape and not very tough looking, just a bully like Joffrey really. Bronn on the other hand is a proven bad ass. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/26 "2012-04-23T14:31:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As for the show, I continue to like this season much better than the first, although I still don’t know who many of the people are or how they relate to each other. I definitely feel like I’m missing a good 1/3 of the whole “experience” because of that. Yea, I’m sort of puzzled that the show is as popular as it is. A season and a half in, they’re still introducing several new characters an episode. I think its fun because I read the books, but I think if I hadn’t I would just be annoyed at how many people I’m supposed to keep track of. Semi-related: One thing I thought was pretty ingenious about how they deal with the above problem is using the opening credits to show the different places they’re going to visit that episode and where they are relative to each other, so the viewer has at least a prayer of keeping the places straight, if not the characters. This episode they showed Winterfell and the Wall in the opening crawl though. But I’m pretty sure neither place was in the actual episode. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/27 "2012-04-23T14:44:16Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > This episode they showed Winterfell and the Wall in the opening crawl though. But I’m pretty sure neither place was in the actual episode. They’ve always shown Winterfell and the Wall, even thought Winterfell was only in the first episode this season. Probably because Winterfell was one of the original settings. I think this was also the first episode to not feature the Dothraki camp in the credits (replacing it with that new city), even though they haven’t been back there this season. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/28 "2012-04-23T14:48:10Z")
The mark of a series, to me, is that when an episode is over I am distraught. The GoT hour goes by very quickly and always leaves me wanting more. This episode was the best so far this season even though it had me pulled so tight, I could barely watch. Then there was the birthing of the shadow scene. I’d say that was CGI money well spent. I guess the CGI money was already spent on the shadow and that was why Dany couldn’t show her dragons to The Thirteen, right? The foot cutting scene, the rat torture scene, the beating Sansa scene, the sadistic whoring scene. . . Jack Gleason is going to need armed guards to leave his house after this series is over-- all had me churning a bit inside. This episode also had me feeling unexpectedly sympathetic towards characters I cannot stand. When Cait cried over Ned’s bones I got choked up too even though I think it was her arrogance and self-centeredness that ultimately caused his death. And thinking of Tywin Lannister as the cavalry coming to save the day was a total twist. As someone said elsewhere: you know this series is full of assholes when you are relieved to see Tywin Lannister show up! Can someone tell me all the name in Arya’s Death List? And who they are? I get Joffrey, Cersie, The Hound and The Mountain but I think she’s got more in there and I’m not sure who they are. In an episode filled with such tension, it’s weird how many funny lines there were. But I’m going with Renly’s “He comes from salt and smoke? What is he, a ham?” as the best zinger this week. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/29 "2012-04-23T14:51:25Z")
Ilyn Payne, the mute executioner that killed Ned. He wasn’t seen much at all, but they named him on the first or second episode of season 1 after he scares Sansa. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/30 "2012-04-23T14:53:37Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > They’ve always shown Winterfell and the Wall, even thought Winterfell was only in the first episode this season. Probably because Winterfell was one of the original settings. I think this was also the first episode to not feature the Dothraki camp in the credits (replacing it with that new city), even though they haven’t been back there this season. Winterfell had a (brief) scene in the previous episode. And I assumed they used the Dorthaki camp as a general stand in for when they showed characters wandering around the surrounding wastes (likewise they use “the wall” part of the opening whenever characters are shown north of the wall). This is the first time I noticed them showing a set in the opening when there wasn’t a scene that was anywhere close to that location in the actual episode. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/31 "2012-04-23T15:00:38Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I think this was also the first episode to not feature the Dothraki camp in the credits (replacing it with that new city), even though they haven’t been back there this season. IIRC, the very first episode has Pentos (the city Illyrio is from, where Dany and Viserys started off at) instead of Vaes Dothrak. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Ilyn Payne, the mute executioner that killed Ned. He wasn’t seen much at all, but they named him on the first or second episode of season 1 after he scares Sansa. She also says Ser Polliver, one of The Mountain’s men who killed Lommy last episode and took Needle. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/32 "2012-04-23T15:01:18Z")
I think (but I’m not sure) that King’s Landing and Winterfell are always in the opening credits. They are like the two pillars between which this whole series stands. Thanks Digital and bouv. ---
**Author:** ![Nothar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nothar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothar)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/33 "2012-04-23T15:07:24Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess the CGI money was already spent on the shadow and that was why Dany couldn’t show her dragons to The Thirteen, right? I assumed that she is wary of showing the dragons because of the threat of theft. The dragons are likely the most valuable things in the entire world, and at this point are unable to really defend themselves because they are still young. I think she would have ended up showing 1 of them if necessary to get in, but the question is would she be willing to part with 1 of the 3 if that was the only way to ensure her survival and the survival of her khalasar. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/34 "2012-04-23T15:14:23Z")
If they wanted to steal them they could have easily overwhelmed her tiny force though. Or simply waited until they died like they planned. I think she just didn’t want them to see they were tiny and her threats of burning everything down were all talk. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/35 "2012-04-23T15:54:54Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > If they wanted to steal them they could have easily overwhelmed her tiny force though. Or simply waited until they died like they planned. I think she just didn’t want them to see they were tiny and her threats of burning everything down were all talk. That’s what I thought. Little pigeon dragons aren’t all that impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/36 "2012-04-23T16:08:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s what I thought. Little pigeon dragons aren’t all that impressive. We haven’t seen them in action. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/37 "2012-04-23T16:13:19Z")
It might have been simple stubbornness and not wanting to perform on command like a trained monkey also. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/38 "2012-04-23T16:19:47Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I think (but I’m not sure) that King’s Landing and Winterfell are always in the opening credits. They are like the two pillars between which this whole series stands… Winterfell is the home of the Starks–who remain important characters. Although most of them are far from home, now… ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/39 "2012-04-23T16:22:48Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I guess the CGI money was already spent on the shadow and that was why Dany couldn’t show her dragons to The Thirteen, right? My impression was that she’s like the magician who goes to a party with friends and doesn’t want to perform any magic. You’re supposed to like him for himself, not because he does tricks. Dany thinks she deserves respect as the last Targaryen, rightful heir to the Iron Throne, with or without dragons. She wasn’t going to put on a show for those people. And it’s better if the Qarth folks just **think** there might be dragons. If they knew for sure, they’d take them. ETA: On preview, what **Digital C** said. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/40 "2012-04-23T16:37:20Z")
Pretty stupid stance to take when you and your people face being added to The Garden of Bones after which they’ll take you dragons anyway. Her refusal makes no sense. I loved Dany last season and can do without her this one. Hey! They did not show Jon and the Nightwatch this episode and I didn’t even notice! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567.md?page=3)