# Game of Thrones 2.04 "Garden of Bones" 4/22 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2012, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567 "2012-04-22T07:52:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/81 "2012-04-24T06:58:11Z")
> [@wonderlust](#): > > Maybe mental instability is present in a long line of incest babies. Who says it’s a long line? My understanding is that it’s strictly a Jamie/Cersei thing, not a Lannister thing. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/82 "2012-04-24T10:23:05Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > What makes Dany the rightful heir now? Her relative conquered Westeros by force? Seems like Stannis has a better claim to me. She is dragon-born. Humans are beneath her. It is her world. > [@Shakester](#): > > Who says it’s a long line? My understanding is that it’s strictly a Jamie/Cersei thing, not a Lannister thing. Last season, didn’t Cersei tell Ned that the Lannisters kept their blood pure by bedding siblings for hundreds of years? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/83 "2012-04-24T10:54:39Z")
I don’t remember such a conversation, but it’s the Targaryens who have been practicing brother-sister marriage for centuries, like the Ptolemies of Egypt. If Cersei said that to Ned must have been using them as an example to justify her own behavior. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/84 "2012-04-24T11:13:35Z")
No, haven’t got the DVD to hand but i’msure she was talking about the Targaryens, who definitely did this a lot and were known for having a high percentage of nutjobs in consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/85 "2012-04-24T11:34:42Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > She is dragon-born. Humans are beneath her. It is her world. > > Last season, didn’t Cersei tell Ned that the Lannisters kept their blood pure by bedding siblings for hundreds of years? Dany is certainly human and likely less magical than Bran. I dont buy it. As to the Targs ruling for 300 years, the Statistically ruled for 8,000. Surely the Targaryena are the real usurpers. In any case the real answer is that the rightful ruler is one that can rule. As varys days, power resides where men believe e it resides, be it with dragons or armies or lineage. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/86 "2012-04-24T12:52:54Z")
I _do_ have that episode (1.07) to hand, and the exact quote is: [QUOTE=Cersei Lannister] Targaryens wed brothers and sisters for 300 years to keep bloodlines pure. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/87 "2012-04-24T13:30:15Z")
Thanks for looking that up. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/88 "2012-04-24T15:06:14Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Dany is certainly human and likely less magical than Bran. I dont buy it. > > As to the Targs ruling for 300 years, the Statistically ruled for 8,000. Surely the Targaryena are the real usurpers. > > In any case the real answer is that the rightful ruler is one that can rule. As varys days, power resides where men believe e it resides, be it with dragons or armies or lineage. Who or what is Statistically? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/89 "2012-04-24T15:25:48Z")
I think she meant that before the Targaryens the ruling houses ruled their own kingdoms for thousands of years. Question: do people think Melisandre’s little display last episode automatically mean she is evil? I am having an argument on another board who see it as uncategorally evil no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/90 "2012-04-24T15:37:26Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Question: do people think Melisandre’s little display last episode automatically mean she is evil? I am having an argument on another board who see it as uncategorally evil no matter what. I can’t see how giving birth to smoke-demon baby could possibly turn out to be a good thing. I’m not getting a lot of moral ambiguity from Melisandre so far. Id say evil is a pretty safe hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/91 "2012-04-24T15:39:09Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Question: do people think Melisandre’s little display last episode automatically mean she is evil? I am having an argument on another board who see it as uncategorally evil no matter what. How are they defining “evil”? “Not a nice person”? She’s conniving and manipulative. Her agenda seems to be to put Stannis on the throne and thereby spread her religion. If Stannis wins and she starts burning non-believers, she’s still not evil – she’s just playing the game, doing what winners do. I don’t think she wants power for its own sake – she has a mission. That doesn’t make her evil. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/92 "2012-04-24T15:48:37Z")
Yeah, the discussion is not really about her goals, just her methods. Basically they are claiming popping out that shadow thingie is inherently evil no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/93 "2012-04-24T16:01:01Z")
Ask them how what Melisandre did is different from what Dany did. The answer will be “Well, we **like** Dany. Plus, she’s young, blonde, and cute. Melly is older, with red hair, and you know what redhaired women are like.” ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/94 "2012-04-24T16:05:03Z")
Dany also didn’t nurture a shadowed, fanged creature in her womb. Mel created that thing. Dany only figured out how to hatch eggs. It’s like the difference between Dr. Frankenstein and a chicken farmer. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/95 "2012-04-24T16:09:49Z")
Dany actually burned someone alive, Melisandre didn’t sacrifice anybody for her shadow baby. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/96 "2012-04-24T16:11:48Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Who or what is Statistically? Starks. I need to stop posting from my phone with auto-correct. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/97 "2012-04-24T16:15:12Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Her agenda seems to be to put Stannis on the throne and thereby spread her religion. If Stannis wins and she starts burning non-believers, she’s still not evil – she’s just playing the game, doing what winners do. Burning non-believers is a pretty good definition of evil. It’s entirely possible to be a winner without being a murderous fanatic. Even in Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/98 "2012-04-24T16:16:48Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Starks. I need to stop posting from my phone with auto-correct. You should see some of the doozies I get posting from my bed on my Kindle. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/99 "2012-04-24T16:18:04Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Dany actually burned someone alive, Melisandre didn’t sacrifice anybody for her shadow baby. Yeah but that bitch needed to go. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567/100 "2012-04-24T16:20:06Z")
Why? because she neutralized a genocidal murderous rapist? because she killed a baby that was prophecized to literally “fuck the world”? Mirri maz durr was perfectly justified in what she did and in any other story she would be a martyr. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-04-garden-of-bones-4-22-no-book-spoilers/619567.md?page=6)