# Game of Thrones 2.05 "The Ghost of Harrenhal" No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 29, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338 "2012-04-29T17:50:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/41 "2012-04-30T19:14:50Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It’s not that Balon doesn’t give a shit, it’s that he knows the Starks raised his son to be more like them than him. Theon didn’t even remember the Ironmen customs and came home wearing jewelry like a whore. The whole “they won’t respect you until you earn it” thing doesn’t just go for the underlings. Speaking of which, I didn’t quite get Theon’s last scene - his first mate suggests they forget about raiding fishing villages and head for Castle Something instead, to which Theon retorts something like “Yes, we can take it but only for a couple of days, after that the Starks will send their own men to take it back and then…”, then a pause, and then he gets a big smile to match his mate’s, like he just got the joke/plan. So… and then what ? And then houses Stark & Greyjoy will be at war for realz ? Or and then no and then because all of the Starks’ men are otherwise occupied already ? And then Theon’s sister’s fleet will catch them from behind ? What ? ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/42 "2012-04-30T19:15:35Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > No sex or nudity at all, might be a first for the series. I noticed that afterwards too, lol. Nice change! I’m not a prude or anything and liked what sexuality was in the books but in the series they’re just randomly throwing tits out like mardi gras beads for no reason or furtherment of the story; it’s annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/43 "2012-04-30T19:17:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Speaking of which, I didn’t quite get Theon’s last scene - his first mate suggests they forget about raiding fishing villages and head for Castle Something instead, to which Theon retorts something like “Yes, we can take it but only for a couple of days, after that the Starks will send their own men to take it back and then…”, then a pause, and then he gets a big smile to match his mate’s, like he just got the joke/plan. > > So… and then what ? And then houses Stark & Greyjoy will be at war for realz ? Or and then no and then because all of the Starks’ men are otherwise occupied already ? And then Theon’s sister’s fleet will catch them from behind ? What ? I think Asha’s off somewhere else enjoying her plundering. Theon’s miffed he’s being sent to do scut-work, when even his men know they could/should be doing something else. Only took a nudge from the first mate to get him going onto something else; at this point he REALLY wants to prove to his father and the Ironborn that he is NOT a pawn of the Starks, so baiting them and fighting them seems a great way to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/44 "2012-04-30T19:29:36Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Does it have a range? Considering Ser Davos had to smuggle the priestess ashore before she unleashed it, I would WAG yes (or at least it has a non-trivial travel time, else she could have just sent it from the boat). > [@](#): > > But his famous righteousness isn’t so admirable if he’ll let that thing work for him… Well, there’s also the fact that he was on the rebel side during the civil war against the Mad King Targaryen. Just like Ned Stark, another “honour and virtue though the Heavens fall” type. So that’s at least one broken oath on their jacket. That being said, I’m not sure Stannis really knows the specifics in this instance - he didn’t seem all that convinced that Melisandre could help much before their war room romp (and seemed to agree to said romp only for the chance at a prospective heir rather than some nefarious divine intervention). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/45 "2012-04-30T19:30:40Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > “Yes, we can take it but only for a couple of days, after that the Starks will send their own men to take it back and then…” The obvious take-away is that if the Starks send their men to defend the other place, then who will be there to defend Winterfell? This was reinforced when Bran sent the men when it was pointed out they had few to spare, and when he was talking about ‘the sea’ covering Winterfell. If that happens, and Theon can pull it off, then he will have proved himself a warrior to his father. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/46 "2012-04-30T19:34:51Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Renly wasn’t “random.” He was the one that Stannis most needed dead. What I meant to say is that he suddenly gains the ability to just drop anyone he wants dead, regardless of their security detail. And yes, we still need to see which limits there are to shadowchildren, but at this point it feels as pointless as “he suddenly developed lung cancer and died”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/47 "2012-04-30T19:39:41Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So… and then what ? And then houses Stark & Greyjoy will be at war for realz ? Or and then no and then because all of the Starks’ men are otherwise occupied already ? And then Theon’s sister’s fleet will catch them from behind ? What ? > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The obvious take-away is that if the Starks send their men to defend the other place, then who will be there to defend Winterfell? This was reinforced when Bran sent the men when it was pointed out they had few to spare, and when he was talking about ‘the sea’ covering Winterfell. Yes, that’s exactly what I was thinking. The whole scene with Bran sending 200 men away to help the bannermen seemed like foreshadowing that Winterfell was going to be in danger. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/48 "2012-04-30T19:39:50Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > What I meant to say is that he suddenly gains the ability to just drop anyone he wants dead, regardless of their security detail. The thing came from her womb. Last episode (or the one before that?) she said he would give Stanis sons and they had sex. So maybe it’s ‘suddenly’ now because they only recently did the act. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/49 "2012-04-30T20:02:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Speaking of which, I didn’t quite get Theon’s last scene - his first mate suggests they forget about raiding fishing villages and head for Castle Something instead, to which Theon retorts something like “Yes, we can take it but only for a couple of days, after that the Starks will send their own men to take it back and then…”, then a pause, and then he gets a big smile to match his mate’s, like he just got the joke/plan. > > So… and then what ? And then houses Stark & Greyjoy will be at war for realz ? Or and then no and then because all of the Starks’ men are otherwise occupied already ? And then Theon’s sister’s fleet will catch them from behind ? What ? Theon says that Torhen’s Square, which is presumably some sort of castle or town, would make a richer prize than the fishing villages on the stony shore he’s supposed to raid. He then notes that he would never be able to hold it, because it is near Winterfell and the Winterfell garrison would quickly retake Torhen’s Square. He then trails off and looks like he has an idea. Later on at Winterfell, awesome sideburns guy tells Bran that Torhen’s Square is under siege, but they don’t know how or by whom. They suspect some sort of Lannister raiding party. Sideburns asks Bran for permission to gather the men who didn’t go to war with Robb and to use them to liberate Torhen’s Square from its unknown assailants. Bran tells him to do it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/50 "2012-04-30T20:13:22Z")
That might have been the first sign of Rickon since early season 1. I like that they showed repercussions for leaving a little kid parentless for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/51 "2012-04-30T20:19:45Z")
In regards to the shadowbaby, it clearly has some sort of limited range/time of existence. Why else would it have been necessary for Davos to smuggle the Red Priestess behind Renly’s lines? Also, remember what the witch told Dany in season one. All magic comes with a price. The shadowbaby has already cost Stannis his sense of honor and righteousness that he feels so strongly about. ---
**Author:** ![mil0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mil0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mil0)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/52 "2012-04-30T20:52:04Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Theon says that Torhen’s Square, which is presumably some sort of castle or town, would make a richer prize than the fishing villages on the stony shore he’s supposed to raid. He then notes that he would never be able to hold it, because it is near Winterfell and the Winterfell garrison would quickly retake Torhen’s Square. He then trails off and looks like he has an idea. > > Later on at Winterfell, awesome sideburns guy tells Bran that Torhen’s Square is under siege, but they don’t know how or by whom. They suspect some sort of Lannister raiding party. Sideburns asks Bran for permission to gather the men who didn’t go to war with Robb and to use them to liberate Torhen’s Square from its unknown assailants. Bran tells him to do it. You forgot the part about Bran’s foreshadowing, which is what brought the smile to Theon’s face. ---
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/53 "2012-04-30T21:00:17Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > That might have been the first sign of Rickon since early season 1. I like that they showed repercussions for leaving a little kid parentless for a long time. Yeah, I thought that was a nice touch. My boyfriend wondered why they would let Rickon make all that noise, but I’m pretty sure most of these citizens are used to seeing nobles doing weird shit. Also, I am of the opinion that Bran’s actor is a better actor than Dan Radcliffe at that age. I was watching the commentary for season 1 and one of the other actors (I forget who) commented that they would treat him like any other serious adult actor…and then they’d see him hitting a stick against a tree or something and have to remind themselves “oh yeah, he’s a kid.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/54 "2012-04-30T21:48:11Z")
> [@mil0](#): > > You forgot the part about Bran’s foreshadowing, which is what brought the smile to Theon’s face. Well I didn’t forget, I was merely recapping a bit since he seemed confused, which is understandable given all the different place names that get tossed about. If viewers want to make their own connections about Bran dreaming that the sea had come to Winterfell and what Theon is up to, that’s their business. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/55 "2012-04-30T22:04:28Z")
> [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](#): > > I must say I find this a fascinating read. I’ve been expecting a negative reaction to the shadow babies when these episodes aired, I know I wasn’t sure how I felt about them at first. I had assumed this shadow assassin was a one-off, like how using powerful magics costs you dearly so you can’t do it very much. Your post leads me to believe we’ll see more of these things. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/56 "2012-04-30T23:58:47Z")
[QUOTE=SecretaryOfEvil] Later on at Winterfell, awesome sideburns guy tells Bran that Torhen’s Square is under siege, but they don’t know how or by whom. They suspect some sort of Lannister raiding party. Sideburns asks Bran for permission to gather the men who didn’t go to war with Robb and to use them to liberate Torhen’s Square from its unknown assailants. Bran tells him to do it. [/QUOTE] Ah, I missed that last bit. Makes more sense then. > [@mil0](#): > > You forgot the part about Bran’s foreshadowing, which is what brought the smile to Theon’s face. Theon was already long gone by the time Bran had his sea dream (and he only told Osha about it AFAWK). I see now that his plan is probably to sneak away from Torhen’s Square, zoom about by sea and seize Winterfell while its garrison is busy trying to root him out of TS, but then again Winterfell is still one hell of a castle and Theon’s crew seems to be only about a dozen strong. I doubt they could storm it, even if it was only garrisoned by Hodor. I suppose he could be planning to bluff his way in though, “hey guys I’m back, 'sup, open the gates for me & my mates will ya ?”, in which case I do hope Bran will suss out what his dream meant in time. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/57 "2012-05-01T00:21:27Z")
Anybody else think Theon’s gang of disrespectful cutthroats have rather modern-looking costumes? Could almost be ACUs: [File:Army Combat Uniform.jpg - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Army_Combat_Uniform.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/58 "2012-05-01T00:23:37Z")
Hah, yes i noticed some of them had camo. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/59 "2012-05-01T00:38:49Z")
Now that Danaerys is aware of Mormont’s affection, I suspect she will begin to doubt his judgment and motives. I wonder if his doom will come sooner rather than later. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338/60 "2012-05-01T01:30:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Now that Danaerys is aware of Mormont’s affection, I suspect she will begin to doubt his judgment and motives. I wonder if his doom will come sooner rather than later. Well, she did take his advice immediately after he was a bit too open. He’s still the person that knows her best. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-05-the-ghost-of-harrenhal-no-book-spoilers/620338.md?page=4)