# Game of Thrones 2.07 "A Man Without Honor" 5/13/12 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784 "2012-05-13T17:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/1 "2012-05-13T17:16:08Z")
[Episode 1: The North Remembers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646369) [Episode 2: The Night Lands](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=647706) [Episode 3: What is Dead May Never Die](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=648459) [Episode 4: “Garden of Bones”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=649215) [Episode 5: The Ghosts of Harrenhall](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15015204) [Episode 6: The Old Gods and the New](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650891) This is the thread for people who want to discuss the show without outside information that may spoil the story from either the books or other sources. Discussion about the current episodes and all previous episodes of the series requires no spoiler box. Which means that there should be no need for the use of any spoiler boxes in this thread. If you are looking for discussions where spoilers are acceptable, please visit the [season 2 closed spoiler](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646499) and [open spoiler](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646497) threads. Don’t argue about the spoiler rules in the thread, take it to the pit if necesary. **Gukamatz** has been moderating these threads because he’s more familiar with the source content than the other cafe society mods. This was his note in the OP of the first thread this season: > [@](#): > > **Moderator’s Amendment:** > > **Spoiler policy for this thread:** > > 1. **Anything** that has not yet been AIRED ON TV is not acceptable in this thread. (This includes webzines, DVD extra content, magazines, speculation based on unaired content and so on.) > 2. Any discussion, comparison or really anything related to the books the show is based on needs to go to the Closed Spoilers thread. (See below) > 3. We follow the US airing schedule. There is no “grace period” for letting the rest of the world catch up. (Like us Europeans, people who DVR the show, stream it later, etc, etc) > > This is in order to allow people who want to ask specific questions and receive specific answers regarding backstory or things they missed, be able to use this thread as a resource. For those who wants limited spoilers - for instance people who have read the books up unto a point but don’t want spoilers for the rest of the books - this is the place to be. Please report information which should not be in the open by using the Report Post tool. > > If you want to ask questions regarding backstory, discuss how the series reflect the books, speculate in the future based on unaired information or otherwise engage in a discussion in an enviroment in which posters are to use their best judgement to decide what is or is not a spoiler, please follow this thread: > [Game of Thrones Season 2 - CLOSED SPOILERS Discussion Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646499) > > For those who want to discuss in a **COMPLETELY** open-spoilers enviroment in which the books, the series, webzines and in short all the information available anywhere is valid and open for discussion, please follow this thread: > [Game of Thrones Season 2 - OPEN SPOILERS Discussion Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646497) > > Meta-discussion of the spoiler policy itself should happen in a separate ATMB thread if really necessary, though I invite people to PM me instead. > > With regards, > Gukumatz > Game Room & IMHO Moderator > Consulting Game of Thrones Moderator We left off with Theon holding winterfell, but the remaining Starks escaped. Dany will be screaming “WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS!?” like it’s “WAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLTTTTT!!!” Jon may freeze to death unless he becomes more receptive to dry humping. A “we love the king!” day is celebrated in King’s Landing. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/2 "2012-05-13T18:48:21Z")
Is a large battle going to happen sooner, or later? Tyrion seems to be taking over the wildfire stockpile for some end. Where is Asha going in her thirty ships? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/3 "2012-05-13T20:02:35Z")
Who the heck is Asha? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/4 "2012-05-13T20:06:34Z")
Excuse me, Yara. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/5 "2012-05-13T20:09:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Is a large battle going to happen sooner, or later? Tyrion seems to be taking over the wildfire stockpile for some end. Where is Asha going in her thirty ships? Heretic! He used a name for a character that’s only in the books - burn him! Seriously, Asha evidently was the name of Theon’s sister, but they changed it to Yara because there’s already a character in Winterfell named Osha. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/6 "2012-05-13T20:13:11Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > Heretic! He used a name for a character that’s only in the books - burn him! > > Seriously, Asha evidently was the name of Theon’s sister, but they changed it to Yara because there’s already a character in Winterfell named Osha. Yeah, I forgot her name and googled ‘theon’s sister’, hence the mistake. I haven’t read the ooks-bay. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/7 "2012-05-13T20:21:11Z")
If you had just called her “Theon’s finger puppet,” we would all have known exactly who you mean. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/8 "2012-05-13T21:55:15Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > Heretic! He used a name for a character that’s only in the books - burn him! > > Seriously, Asha evidently was the name of Theon’s sister, but they changed it to Yara because there’s already a character in Winterfell named Osha. Right. That’s the character in charge of worker safety at Winterfell. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/9 "2012-05-14T04:18:06Z")
Okay, I don’t believe that Theon actually killed Bran and Rickon. We never see them die and the bodies are unidentifiable. Prior to this when someone major died it all happened before our eyes, no potential ambiguity. My first guess as to what Catelyn would do with Brienne’s sword is cut out Jaime’s tongue. Or his balls. Or both. No idea what’s happening with Jon Snow. He seems to me to be in a big pickle. Same with Danaerys. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/10 "2012-05-14T05:06:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Okay, I don’t believe that Theon actually killed Bran and Rickon. We never see them die and the bodies are unidentifiable. Prior to this when someone major died it all happened before our eyes, no potential ambiguity. Yeah, there no way they’re dead. But I wonder if Theon knows that, or if his crew brought him two burnt kids and said “here they are.” It struck that this episode seemed to made up mostly of long conversations between two characters. I know there’s a lot of those in this show, but there were very few scenes in this episode that had more than two characters. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/11 "2012-05-14T05:39:36Z")
Nice shout out to the fandom by the Kingslayer when he described Cat as a shewolf. Wonder if he keeps his head? In other news, Alfie Allen is finally putting the whole “Alfie” business behind him, he is a wonderful Theon. I especially liked the way he portrayed the inner conflict in Theon; there is a genuine struggle in him when he does what he does, although it does not last. In is great to compare Jon and him; Jon has a conflict too, but he chooses to do what is expected as opposed to what feels right. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/12 "2012-05-14T06:35:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Okay, I don’t believe that Theon actually killed Bran and Rickon. We never see them die and the bodies are unidentifiable. Yeah, I would guess they are those two orphan boys they’ve referenced a couple of times. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/13 "2012-05-14T06:44:38Z")
Can someone explain why exactly they sent the old dude back once they found the shells in the hay? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/14 "2012-05-14T07:44:42Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Can someone explain why exactly they sent the old dude back once they found the shells in the hay? Presumably so he couldn’t see Theon roasting two random peasant kids. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/15 "2012-05-14T07:50:00Z")
I didn’t buy Sansa’s handmaid/Tyrion’s lover being dumb enough not to shut the door and then asking Sansa to help flip the mattress with them on opposite sides was even dumber. As much as Tyrion has pounded into her head about castle intrigues I think her first impulse should have been shutting the door behind her instead of panicking and acting even dumber than Sansa. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/16 "2012-05-14T08:12:41Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Presumably so he couldn’t see Theon roasting two random peasant kids. So it wasn’t actually related to the discarded shells then? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/17 "2012-05-14T08:28:15Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > So it wasn’t actually related to the discarded shells then? I’m not sure. I think Theon and his first mate took the walnut shells as proof that the peasant had helped the Starks escape, which gave them an excuse to murderize his kids to cover up the fact that they suck at manhunts. Basically in my mind it’s: dogs have lost the track, maybe we moved too far ahead and the prisoners turned left at Albuquerque =\> Walnut shells. They actually were here. Well shit. =\> Torture the old man, he’ll tell us where they’ve gone =\> He knows nothing because Osha & al. snuck in his larder without his knowledge. FFFFFFFFFfffff =\> We need to pick up the trail but now we’re super late and the dogs are useless =\> Let’s not and say we did. Maester Luwin was taken away before item n°3. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/18 "2012-05-14T08:52:45Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I’m not sure. I think Theon and his first mate took the walnut shells as proof that the peasant had helped the Starks escape, which gave them an excuse to murderize his kids to cover up the fact that they suck at manhunts. Okay, that makes sense. I wasn’t sure if there was more behind it, such as the old guy concealing something he knew. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/19 "2012-05-14T10:43:49Z")
When they found the shells they thought they had found the boys, so they sent the maester back so he wouldn’t be there ti either witness or moan and wail while they did whatever they were going to do. That’s my guess. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/20 "2012-05-14T11:02:04Z")
Re-watching the episode, I wonder why Jaime killed the starry-eyed Lannister squire. I understand that he needed to make the jailer come into the pen, but couldn’t he have just knocked the kid out, or even just told him “I need you to make like you’re dead” in the grand and honoured tradition of Hollywood jailbreaks ? I gotta say though, I’m loving how they’ve been breaking the ice around Cersei these past two episodes. I like my villains humane and miserable about their being villains. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784.md?page=2)