# Game of Thrones 2.07 "A Man Without Honor" 5/13/12 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784 "2012-05-13T17:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/21 "2012-05-14T11:12:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Right. That’s the character in charge of worker safety at Winterfell. 😃 One wonders if there’s a maid named Ada who makes sure ramps and such get properly installed. Was it just me, or did Tyrion and Cersei come to the unspoken conclusion that they probably ought to kill Joffrey? It was like, Tyrion: “Well, the next two successors to the throne are actually really sweet, reasonable kids.” Cersei and Tyrion: GIANT, PROTRACTED SILENCE. I quite enjoyed the irony and potential humiliation as Tywin waxed poetic about making his legacy for history, and how he’d be remembered, as he came within a hair’s breadth of being stabbed in the back by a little girl. Oh, a big important question! WTF was the Hound on about? It sounded like he was saying when it comes down to it he’ll protect Sansa \*from \*Joffrey, by killing. Not that I have anything against that scenario, but it doesn’t jibe with his character, his previous actions, or his attitude in that very conversation. I’m confused. Rickon needs to admit he has a problem with Walnuts and get a sponsor. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/22 "2012-05-14T11:24:06Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Nice shout out to the fandom by the Kingslayer when he described Cat as a shewolf. Wonder if he keeps his head? It’s something completely justified within the bounds of the story. Why would that be a “shout out”? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/23 "2012-05-14T12:44:25Z")
I didn’t understand the scene in which Robb received a report from someone (Ser Alton?) about his meeting with a woman who tore a piece of paper in half. What was that about? And what was the “cragg” that Robb went to later in the episode? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/24 "2012-05-14T12:48:12Z")
The report was about Cersei’s reaction to receiving Robb’s demands. The cragg is just some castle that Robb was going to receive someone’s surrender. That’s all we know. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/25 "2012-05-14T12:51:43Z")
Thanks. So was that the same guy who Jaime killed later? Presumably a distant Lannister relative? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/26 "2012-05-14T12:53:23Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I didn’t understand the scene in which Robb received a report from someone (Ser Alton?) about his meeting with a woman who tore a piece of paper in half. What was that about? And what was the “cragg” that Robb went to later in the episode? The woman who tore the paper in half was Cersei, who tore Robb’s demands (for the return of his sisters, and a free and independent North) in half. I’m assuming “The Crag” is some castle or city that Robb is off negotiating the surrender for. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/27 "2012-05-14T12:54:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Thanks. So was that the same guy who Jaime killed later? Presumably a distant Lannister relative? Yes, a Lannister cousin, from a branch of the family with little influence or power. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/28 "2012-05-14T13:20:21Z")
I wonder if Tywin has deduced who his serving girl is. Its clear to him that she is not who she claims to be and he has in the last three episodes attempted to glean more about her. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/29 "2012-05-14T13:27:09Z")
I’m of the opinion that he totally has by now (or at least knows she’s the daughter of someone from Robb’s camp), but is keeping it close to his chest. After all, she demonstrably already eluded his soldiers once but seems to have gone to ground here. No sense giving her a reason to bolt once more. Plus she’s cute and smart and reminds him of young Cersei :3 ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/30 "2012-05-14T13:54:02Z")
Tyrion and Cersei almost have a moment. I do not think the “long, protracted silence” was the two of them agreeing to off Joffrey. Cercsie would never, ever agree to that. But it was a moment where the two siblings almost liked each other. I got the feeling that Tyrion was going to attempt to comfort his sister then couldn’t muster up enough courage to actually touch her. I believe he got whamped the last time he tried. I don’t believe Tywin knows who Arya is. If he did, he would have had her killed along with the 20 others he killed who he suspects was trying to kill him. That being said, how could he not know? What was the significance of the walnut shells? Did Rickon eat them all the time or something? We at least have the word of the late Head of the Counsel (or whatever the Qarth they call it) that the dragons are the size of kittens. We’ll have to use our imaginations and picture them. That throat slitting was. . . graphic. Where did Blue Lips say her dragons where? The House of the Forgotten? I don’t quite understand Blue Lips and Black Guy’s plan to take over the city and why they needed The Mother of Dragons to pull it off? The whole Dany story-line is dumb. How long does it take dragons to grow? Ygrette could have gotten away whenever she wanted, eh? Jon Snow is a terrible ranger. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/31 "2012-05-14T13:57:34Z")
I loved how Tyrion tried to steer the conversation back to a safe place by mentioning Robert and Cersei just did not give a fuck anymore and openly admitted her relationship with Jamie to Tyrion, whom she normally doesn’t trust for shit. She must really be scared shitless, kingslanding doesn’t have an army per se and Stannis is mere days away. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/32 "2012-05-14T14:04:56Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Tyrion and Cersei almost have a moment. It almost looked like Cersei was considering bedding another brother, but I don’t think that was what was intended. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe Tywin knows who Arya is. If he did, he would have had her killed along with the 20 others he killed He would never have her killed. She would be much more valuable to him alive. Remember, he’s fighting a war against her brother, who has his own son captive. > [@](#): > > What was the significance of the walnut shells? Did Rickon eat them all the time or something? The entire season, whenever we see Rickon, he’s either eating a walnut or trying to break them open. It hasn’t been subtle. He’s been banging loudly on tables. Earlier in the same episode there was even a whole conversation about whether Rickon could live on just walnuts. > [@DigitalC](#): > > openly admitted her relationship with Jamie to Tyrion, whom she normally doesn’t trust for shit. She talked about it openly to Tyrion and to Sansa. And Jaime talked about it openly too. They don’t seem to even be trying to keep it a secret any more. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/33 "2012-05-14T14:26:27Z")
This episode seemed rather dull to me, compared to the ones this season so far. Am I the only one who thought that? The whole business with Jon and the Wilding Lady is making me snooze. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/34 "2012-05-14T14:28:28Z")
I also found this episode to be comparatively dull. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/35 "2012-05-14T14:29:54Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > The whole Dany story-line is dumb. Hey, this is supposed to be the book spoiler-free thread! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/36 "2012-05-14T14:33:14Z")
This episode seemed to this book illiterate person to be building up to something. maybe Arya kills Tywin. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/37 "2012-05-14T14:35:19Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > This episode seemed to this book illiterate person to be building up to something. maybe Arya kills Tywin. I sure hope not. I would watch a whole episode just about the two of them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/38 "2012-05-14T14:51:44Z")
I was hoping she was saving her last kill for Joffrey. But at this point, it looks like there will be a lot of people jockeying for that kill. Remember when Arya kept chanting names? At first I thought it was some kind of shit list, but she also seemed to be including her own family members. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/39 "2012-05-14T15:02:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I was hoping she was saving her last kill for Joffrey. But at this point, it looks like there will be a lot of people jockeying for that kill. > > Remember when Arya kept chanting names? At first I thought it was some kind of shit list, but she also seemed to be including her own family members. No, her list was Cersei, Joffrey, the hound, Sir Ilin Payne, the mountain, the tickler and i believe the guy who took needle and killed lommy. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/40 "2012-05-14T15:12:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I was hoping she was saving her last kill for Joffrey. But at this point, it looks like there will be a lot of people jockeying for that kill. > > Remember when Arya kept chanting names? At first I thought it was some kind of shit list, but she also seemed to be including her own family members. Oh it’s her list so that she can sleep at night. Yoran (?) they guy from the Nightwatch told her that’s how he used to get to sleep-- listing those who he would kill. So that’s Arya’s “prayer”, those she wants to kill. How old is she, 9? I believe she’ll devote her entire life to hunting down those on her list. She’ll also come back in 20 years-- egging on the Warg Rickon and slaughtering those on her list who aren’t sitting on the throne. That’ll be the last Game of Throne season-- nothing but feral Arya and Rickon killing all the dicks in Westeros. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784.md?page=3)