# Game of Thrones 2.07 "A Man Without Honor" 5/13/12 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784 "2012-05-13T17:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/82 "2012-05-15T18:04:52Z")
> [@Puff](#): > > Dany is showing her age… she is fiery, impetuous and strong willed, but naieve and prone to pouting. I’m pretty sure her arc is going to take a drastically different turn to where she thinks it is headed. Her bloodline and her dragons are all she has (her tribe is little more than a begging line now) and this is what the Qarth duo are after. I would not be surprised to find out that the warlock has a dragon growth fast-track plan, his line of “and she will nourish them, and they will grow” was foreshadowed by his boasts and displays of time/space manipulation. With the city, a king, and 3 (full size?) dragons, they are a force to reckon with. I actually think she has pretty much lost her naivete when she told of Jorah about how she knew that there were no crowds of followers waiting for her in Westeros, that nobody thought twice about her there. Yes, she is Mother of Dragons, able to survive in fire and nurture dragons from old dead eggs, but without the dragons she is nothing. Her visit to Qarth has basically shown her that, they don’t give a crap about her, why would anybody else? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/83 "2012-05-15T18:55:40Z")
> [@Puff](#): > > Tyrion… what a character. I took his scene with Cersei another direction from most people. I think that silence and stare was a tacit agreement between them. Cersei said mothers have to love their children, they have no choice. But that doesn’t mean she cannot see he is bad for the family. The setup with Targaryans making 50% mental cases seems to open the door for her justifying his death, as he will only get worse and weaken the Lannisters overall. She seemed to be asking Tyrion to do the dirty work - I agree he wants to promote the Lannisters lineage, but I can also see him accepting that killing Joffrey is the only way to do so. FWIW, I came away from that scene w/ the same impressions as you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/84 "2012-05-15T19:41:36Z")
Jon’s a bit of a dope, but I’m having trouble being mad at him for not being willing to kill women in cold blood. Revealing who he is to Yvgritte was a stone-stupid move, though. Still, it might save his ass … the wildlings might think they have a pawn to use in their plans, rather than just some captured sword to torment and kill. And the cat and mouse game between Tywin and Arya … delicious! And I agree, Joffrey is doomed. The only person who wants him alive is Cersei. And she may be figuring out she’s not gonna get her wish. I do hope the plot gets off its ass and moves a bit more next week. Thickening turns into curdling after a while. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/85 "2012-05-15T19:49:52Z")
It would be interesting if Jaime ended up killing Joffrey, partly because Jaime is his father and partly because that would make him a two-time Kingslayer, and certain for immortality in that world. ---
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/86 "2012-05-15T20:50:36Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I actually think she has pretty much lost her naivete when she told of Jorah about how she knew that there were no crowds of followers waiting for her in Westeros, that nobody thought twice about her there. Yes, she is Mother of Dragons, able to survive in fire and nurture dragons from old dead eggs, but without the dragons she is nothing. Her visit to Qarth has basically shown her that, they don’t give a crap about her, why would anybody else? She’s no longer naive, but she’s still condescending and acting entitled. She dismissed those who are loyal, the Dothraki who stayed with her across the desert and Jorah, as being worthless to her because they’re not as formidable as she wants them to be. I’m actually glad she’s lost her dragons and will be either coerced into marrying Xaro in his ambitions for power or used to nurture his new dragons into adulthood. If he’s gunning for marriage, she’s getting off easy since Xaro, despite his duplicity, is polite, tolerant or her outbursts, and overall kind to her. One of the better candidates for an arranged marriage. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/87 "2012-05-15T21:28:15Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > Talking about Quaithe; her accent reminds me of Melisandre’s. Both those characters are from the same place, Asshai. I doubt they planned for them to sound the same, probably just a coincidence, but who knows, they put a huge amount of effort into the little things on the show. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/88 "2012-05-16T20:39:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My first guess as to what Catelyn would do with Brienne’s sword is cut out Jaime’s tongue. Or his balls. Or both. Catelyn is clearly going to free him - there’s a riot on her hands that she cannot stop, all wanting to kill Jaime. As has been told to use nearly every single episode, these prisoners are worth far more alive than dead, especially since their death will mean retaliation by the other family. To protect Sansa (and Arya, in her mind), she needs to protect Jaime, and the only way to do that is by freeing him. > [@voltaire](#): > > For now. I’m not completely sold on the idea of Tyrion/Cersei conspiring against Joffrey, but he really does have to go, on pretty much every level. By that I mean not just from an viewer/story perspective, but from the perspective of all the characters. Pretty much everyone in Westeros has suffered because of Joffrey, and pretty much everyone would likely be better off if he were to meet his end. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It would be interesting if Jaime ended up killing Joffrey, partly because Jaime is his father and partly because that would make him a two-time Kingslayer, and certain for immortality in that world. I agree with Dewey - I bet Jaime kills him. Especially after Jaime’s speech about how necessary it is to kill crazy-ass tyrants, an idea that even noble Cat couldn’t fathom because she’s so beholden to the rules. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/89 "2012-05-16T23:49:58Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Catelyn is clearly going to free him - there’s a riot on her hands that she cannot stop, all wanting to kill Jaime. As has been told to use nearly every single episode, these prisoners are worth far more alive than dead, especially since their death will mean retaliation by the other family. To protect Sansa (and Arya, in her mind), she needs to protect Jaime, and the only way to do that is by freeing him. By “freeing him” do you mean just let him walk? I highly doubt that. My guess is that she smuggles him out. She probably wants to get back to Winterfell and see to separating Theon’s head from his shoulders and, of course, check on her kids. Once the invaders are ousted, it will be much safer to keep Jaime there. If she just let him go, he might get killed/disappear trying to make his way back, and that would be just as bad as letting him get killed by the angry mob. Besides, for some reason, I foresee Jaime having to encounter Bran again, and maybe even saving him, somehow. (No way do I buy that Bran and Rickon were the charred corpses.) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/90 "2012-05-17T13:33:51Z")
[QUOTE=voltaire] By “freeing him” do you mean just let him walk? I highly doubt that. My guess is that she smuggles him out. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s probably most likely. Cat now has a badass champion at her side, and she has experience with dragging prisoners around the countryside. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/91 "2012-05-17T19:19:16Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > and she has experience with dragging prisoners around the countryside. To the Eyrie! ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/92 "2012-05-17T20:18:10Z")
I am thinking Cat and Jamie have some sexy time together. Angry, hatesexy time. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/93 "2012-05-17T22:25:50Z")
I honestly believe that Jamie isn’t turned on sexually by anyone but his sister. And angry Catelyn isn’t sexy Catelyn. Frankly, I don’t know how Ned and Catelyn managed to produce five children with how tightly wound up she is, especially after the arrival of Jon Snow. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/94 "2012-05-17T22:35:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I honestly believe that Jamie isn’t turned on sexually by anyone but his sister. And angry Catelyn isn’t sexy Catelyn. Frankly, I don’t know how Ned and Catelyn managed to produce five children with how tightly wound up she is, especially after the arrival of Jon Snow. Jaime: What’s that bastard’s name again? Cat: Brienne . . Jaime: No, that’s not it. I LOL’d. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/95 "2012-05-17T22:36:54Z")
As long as it doesn’t include Brienne. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/96 "2012-05-17T23:24:40Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > As long as it doesn’t include Brienne. Oh, I foresee Jaime and Brienne getting into it, but not THAT way. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/97 "2012-05-20T04:49:03Z")
Minor detail I just remembered. When Tywin originally came into Harrenhall and asked why Arya was dressed as a boy, she said “safer to travel, my lord” - he now points out that “my lord” rather than “milord” suggests a highborne - that may be why she caught his attention early on. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/98 "2012-05-20T15:01:22Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Minor detail I just remembered. When Tywin originally came into Harrenhall and asked why Arya was dressed as a boy, she said “safer to travel, my lord” - he now points out that “my lord” rather than “milord” suggests a highborne - that may be why she caught his attention early on. Now i’m going to pay attention and see if the commoners do say milord. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/99 "2012-05-20T15:22:05Z")
I watched the episode a second time yesterday and still don’t fully understand what happened when Dany went before the thirteen to demand her dragons back. Who were all of those guys who killed the thirteen? And who is now the king of Qarth? Was it Xaro (the large black guy who welcomed her to the city)? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/100 "2012-05-20T15:31:41Z")
The guys who killed the 13 were the projections of the warlock. At Xaro’s party in a previous episode, the warlock duplicated himself to impress Dany - Xaros called it a parlor trick - but apparently it’s some pretty serious business. Xaros is the king of Qarth - it was his plan to team up with the warlock to eliminate the rest of the 13, and convince Dany to raise her dragons in order to give him the power to rule the city and beyond. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784/101 "2012-05-20T16:03:49Z")
Was Xaros always the king? Because I thought that when Dany first got to the city, he was one of thirteen equal leaders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-07-a-man-without-honor-5-13-12-no-book-spoilers/621784.md?page=6)