# Game of Thrones 2.08 "The Prince of Winterfell" 5/20 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528 "2012-05-20T17:47:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/61 "2012-05-22T12:37:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I am skeptical that we’re in store for multiple uses of shadow-baby assassins. If it were possible, then Stannis would be way too powerful. The priestess isn’t with Stannis. The Onion Knight talked him out of bringing her after the shadow assassination, saying he didn’t want Stannis’s victory to become her victory. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/62 "2012-05-22T13:17:04Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I was absolutely expecting him to finish with “Then there was my wife. She was dying, half-mad with hunger. Not much meat on her, but we ate her.” Ha! I was thinking the same thing! I personally like to fanwank that the shadow baby only works when things align properly, like Melisandre has to be ovulating during a full moon on a solstice. Rare shadow babies are OK, but too much just means Stannis should rule the world in a month, and they have to come up with dumb excuses not to have that happen. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/63 "2012-05-22T13:40:04Z")
Did Melisandre appear obviously pregnant when she birthed the shadow creature? Perhaps its gestation period is nine months also, which would make it difficult to use again quickly. Also, I think it was necessary to get her fairly close to Renly (and on land) to use it the first time, so again that’s going to be difficult to accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/64 "2012-05-22T13:43:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Did Melisandre appear obviously pregnant when she birthed the shadow creature? She did when disrobed immediately prior to birthing the smoke spectre. Before that, she was always in loose, draping garments that would conceal any shadow baby bump. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/65 "2012-05-22T14:13:57Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I was absolutely expecting him to finish with “Then there was my wife. She was dying, half-mad with hunger. Not much meat on her, but we ate her.” Heh. Now that I think about it though, we saw Stannis’s wife on the beach, didn’t we? She hasn’t been eaten. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/66 "2012-05-22T15:06:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I thought it was funny when Stannis told the other guy that if Stannis became king, he would appoint the other guy Hand to the King, given that this is the guy whose fingers he removed. Goddammit, I totally missed that. Duh. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/67 "2012-05-22T15:11:04Z")
OK, I’m willing to concede that Joffery is unlikely to be fatally shadow-babied. I still say whoever does what needs to be done - the Hound? The Kingslayer?- it **won’t** be Tyrion. ETA: Sansa! That’d be all kinds of cool. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/68 "2012-05-22T15:15:06Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > OK, I’m willing to concede that Joffery is unlikely to be fatally shadow-babied. > > I still say whoever does what needs to be done - the Hound? The Kingslayer?- it **won’t** be Tyrion. > > ETA: Sansa! That’d be all kinds of cool. Grandfather: Nobody. Nobody kills him. He lives. Kid: You mean he wins? Jesus, Grandpa! What did you read me this thing for? Grandfather: You know, you…you’ve been very sick and you’re taking this story very seriously. I think we’d better stop now. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/69 "2012-05-22T15:23:05Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Grandfather: Nobody. Nobody kills him. He lives. > Kid: You mean he wins? Jesus, Grandpa! What did you read me this thing for? > Grandfather: You know, you…you’ve been very sick and you’re taking this story very seriously. I think we’d better stop now. Fair point. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/70 "2012-05-22T15:43:45Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Did Melisandre appear obviously pregnant when she birthed the shadow creature? Perhaps its gestation period is nine months also, which would make it difficult to use again quickly. Also, I think it was necessary to get her fairly close to Renly (and on land) to use it the first time, so again that’s going to be difficult to accomplish. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > She did when disrobed immediately prior to birthing the smoke spectre. Before that, she was always in loose, draping garments that would conceal any shadow baby bump. Yeah, the only time we saw her obviously pregnant was when she gave birth. But it was only two episodes before, while preparing for the battle against Renly, that she (definitely not pregnant) and Stannis had sex for the first time. So, the gestation period was a matter of days, at most. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/71 "2012-05-22T15:53:52Z")
Arya Stark joins with Robb. He has a vacancy for the post of trusted female relative advisor. She would do better than mummy. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/72 "2012-05-22T20:46:02Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Yeah, the only time we saw her obviously pregnant was when she gave birth. But it was only two episodes before, while preparing for the battle against Renly, that she (definitely not pregnant) and Stannis had sex for the first time. So, the gestation period was a matter of days, at most. I’d like to think the potency of my man-seed would be prime catalyst for shadow babies. I still don’t know what’s up with Theon and the stark/poor farmer boys. Does he know it’s not them? If yes, what does he hope to accomplish here? Word will arrive once they make it south/are found. Does he not know? Who would deceive him in this way and for what purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/73 "2012-05-22T20:51:48Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > I still don’t know what’s up with Theon and the stark/poor farmer boys. > > Does he know it’s not them? If yes, what does he hope to accomplish here? Word will arrive once they make it south/are found. > > Does he not know? Who would deceive him in this way and for what purpose? He knows. He tried to get his second in command to pay off the farmer. He’s assuming that it’s better for people to think they’re dead (maybe he’ll get lucky and they’re die in the wilderness) than for everyone to know that he let them escape. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/74 "2012-05-22T21:50:50Z")
Damn it did I miss that scene? Hmmm, guy just keeps making one mistake after another. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/75 "2012-05-22T21:55:11Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Also, poor, poor Ser Jorah. Unrequited love is always painful to watch. You could hear the heartstrings snap at the “they’re the only children I will ever have” :(. > [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > He did look upset, but when I heard that line I assumed that the death magic hadn’t just dragonized and killed her fetus, but also rendered her sterile. Did the witch mention anything along those lines? > [@Kobal2](#): > > I took it as a direct “don’t get any ideas, boy” myself, coming either out of faithfulness to Drogo (i.e. “I’ve had the manliest motherfucker on this green Earth, I’m not settling for any less now”) or more likely out of DURN NEED CHILLUN GOT MAH DRAGUNS! Dany can’t breed with humans. She is half-dragon, and she can only birth half-human half-dragon abominations whose skin sloughs off and crumbles to ash at the touch. There is no reason to think the death magic had anything to do with it. Put it this way: On the one hand there’s a woman with dragon blood in her veins that grants her immunity to fire. Then there’s the witch doctor who slits the throat of a horse to perform some kind of necromancy. Which magical source is more likely to produce a dragon fetus? My money’s on the one with the dragon blood. Now, if Dany gave birth to a zombie or vampire or something, then I’d say that was from a necromancer’s spell. I don’t think Jorah’s heart broke at Dany saying she’ll never have children of her own. I think he’s of the exact same opinion. Even moreso, since unlike Dany he actually saw the abomination with his own eyes. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/76 "2012-05-22T22:02:45Z")
That dragon blood thing is no more real than the Lannisters calling themselves lions or the Starks wolves. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/77 "2012-05-22T22:08:09Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Damn it did I miss that scene? > > Hmmm, guy just keeps making one mistake after another. I don’t recall that happening either. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/78 "2012-05-22T22:09:31Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > That dragon blood thing is no more real than the Lannisters calling themselves lions or the Starks wolves. So why didn’t Dany burn up in the fire? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/79 "2012-05-22T22:17:59Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Dany can’t breed with humans. She is half-dragon, and she can only birth half-human half-dragon abominations whose skin sloughs off and crumbles to ash at the touch. There is no reason to think the death magic had anything to do with it. > > Put it this way: On the one hand there’s a woman with dragon blood in her veins that grants her immunity to fire. Then there’s the witch doctor who slits the throat of a horse to perform some kind of necromancy. Which magical source is more likely to produce a dragon fetus? My money’s on the one with the dragon blood. Now, if Dany gave birth to a zombie or vampire or something, then I’d say that was from a necromancer’s spell. Or maybe the late term miscarriage - regardless of its cause - simply caused irreversible damage to her reproductive system. These things happened with medieval medical technology. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/80 "2012-05-22T22:38:24Z")
ETA:@ **Ellis Dee** Wait, what ? Since when are the Targaeryens half-dragons ? 😕 Is this book lore, something I blanked in the series or a personal theory of yours ? Granted, Viserys did tell Doreah it was “entirely possible” that he had dragon blood in his veins but a) he was being playful and teasing at the time and b) that’s the kind of stuff Viserys used to say. He was a self-aggrandizing egomaniac. It was known. That said, and all other things being equal, the “last” dragons died centuries before Dany was born so strictly speaking she can’t be half- anything. If dragon happened and penis (cloaca ?) ensued it must have been generations upon generations ago, and if \*that \*had led to the Targaeryen women not being able to carry human babies the bloodline would have died right along their draconic baby daddies, wouldn’t it ? Oh, and I just checked to be sure: Jorah didn’t see anything, in the reveal scene he told Dany that “the women said…” - then Mirri cuts him off to say the stillborn was all deformed and oogie and she saw it herself because she’s the one who pulled it out. What reason do we have to believe a word of it, considering her motivations ? Besides, there were \*really fucking creepy \*sounds coming from that birthing tent. And Mirri Maz Dur’s magic did save Drogo’s life, after a fashion. For my money, death magic really happened that day. Hell, for all we know that’s why and how Drogo came back brain dead: not enough life in an unborn child to top up his health bar the whole way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528.md?page=5)