# Game of Thrones 2.08 "The Prince of Winterfell" 5/20 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528 "2012-05-20T17:47:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/81 "2012-05-22T22:47:28Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So why didn’t Dany burn up in the fire? Dragon magic. Specifically, the unhatched ones. It’s very likely she has some sort of mystical connection with them - but it’s quite the leap from there to “she’s really a human-dragon hybrid” ! ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/82 "2012-05-22T22:56:42Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > … Hell, for all we know that’s why and how Drogo came back brain dead: not enough life in an unborn child to top up his health bar the whole way. Interesting theory … ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/83 "2012-05-22T23:16:07Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > He knows. He tried to get his second in command to pay off the farmer. He’s assuming that it’s better for people to think they’re dead (maybe he’ll get lucky and they’re die in the wilderness) than for everyone to know that he let them escape. During that conversation, the maester was listening intently and then looked at the burned corpses. So was this the first time he realized that these were not the Stark children. But then later, he was in the crypt, where Osha and the children were hiding. So during the conversation about the pay-off to the farmer, did he already know about the bodies? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/84 "2012-05-22T23:29:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t recall that happening either. It happened, Theon gave his second in command a bag of gold and told him it was for the farmer “for his trouble”. Dagmer tells him they killed the farmer and his wife to keep them quiet. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/85 "2012-05-22T23:49:35Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Besides, there were \*really fucking creepy \*sounds coming from that birthing tent. And Mirri Maz Dur’s magic did save Drogo’s life, after a fashion. For my money, death magic really happened that day. Hell, for all we know that’s why and how Drogo came back brain dead: not enough life in an unborn child to top up his health bar the whole way. Huh. I’ve read the books a couple times, and never really thought of that, but it makes total sense. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/86 "2012-05-23T00:14:47Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh, and I just checked to be sure: Jorah didn’t see anything, in the reveal scene he told Dany that “the women said…” - then Mirri cuts him off to say the stillborn was all deformed and oogie and she saw it herself because she’s the one who pulled it out. What reason do we have to believe a word of it, considering her motivations ? > Besides, there were \*really fucking creepy \*sounds coming from that birthing tent. And Mirri Maz Dur’s magic did save Drogo’s life, after a fashion. For my money, death magic really happened that day. Hell, for all we know that’s why and how Drogo came back brain dead: not enough life in an unborn child to top up his health bar the whole way. I love the way you put that, and it does make sense. Also like your point that the witch could have been lying. She might have made up the dragony details just to be an asshole and hurt Dany more - that certainly turned out to be her purpose. Or, that whole storyline was dripping with irony; having the baby die by turning dragon-ish would go right along with that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/87 "2012-05-23T00:30:40Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It happened, Theon gave his second in command a bag of gold and told him it was for the farmer “for his trouble”. Dagmer tells him they killed the farmer and his wife to keep them quiet. Ah, yes. Now I remember. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/88 "2012-05-23T00:59:53Z")
Didn’t Dany once put her hand in some fire or something, prior to the birth of the dragons? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/89 "2012-05-23T01:13:22Z")
She took a bath in extremely hot water; her handmaiden thought she would burn herself, but she was uninjured. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/90 "2012-05-23T01:19:46Z")
She also picked up a burning dragon egg, one that scorched a handmaiden. Being Dany’s handmaiden should come with combat pay. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/91 "2012-05-23T02:02:35Z")
I had read the books, but I had forgotten what real tards the Starks were. Without getting all spoilery to those non-book readers all I can tell you is don’t get too attached to ANY character regardless of how much screen time they have gotten to date. They are ALL disposable to the needs of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/92 "2012-05-23T02:36:01Z")
Yeah, but all the rules change when it comes to the series; it’s it’s own entity now. What annoys me is that there are lines thrown away in the series that have exposition or explanation to back them up in the books, yet the series doesn’t explain them at all. People are going to get confused, especially if they really don’t want any book information. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/93 "2012-05-23T02:40:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > ETA:@ **Ellis Dee** > Wait, what ? Since when are the Targaeryens half-dragons ? 😕 Is this book lore, something I blanked in the series or a personal theory of yours ? They aren’t. Dany is. I’ve never read the books, this is just my understanding based on what the show has presented to us. It’s clear as day, IMO. Dany exhibited dragony heat immunity before she even met the Dothraki. There was nothing but petrified dragon eggs in the world when the witch doctor described the half-dragon fetus, so why would she think to make up that lie specifically? Dany flat-out said that her brother wasn’t a dragon when his golden crown killed him because dragons can’t be killed by fire. Dany can’t be killed by fire. Dany gave birth to a half-dragon. Ergo, Dany is a dragon. I could get behind the idea that the death magic sucked the life out of the fetus, though remember they used a horse as well so I don’t think a lack of life force to draw from is sufficient to explain Khal’s brain-dead result. (Even assuming that, though, I can’t imagine Dany wanting to ever birth a healthy half-dragon abomination.) What I can’t get behind is the idea that the death magic turned an otherwise normal human fetus into a half-dragon one. That just makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/94 "2012-05-23T02:53:23Z")
clipped ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/95 "2012-05-23T02:56:05Z")
Are you perhaps in the wrong thread? Because the _very first post_ of _this_ thread says: > [@](#): > > 1. Any discussion, comparison or really anything related to the books the show is based on needs to go to the Closed Spoilers thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sasquatch\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@Sasquatch\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sasquatch_1)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/96 "2012-05-23T05:31:20Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Yeah, the only time we saw her obviously pregnant was when she gave birth. But it was only two episodes before, while preparing for the battle against Renly, that she (definitely not pregnant) and Stannis had sex for the first time. So, the gestation period was a matter of days, at most. I think it’s fairly obvious that it took the life of the Stannis/Mel conceived baby to create the shadow baby assassin, so with that and the show’s demonstrated point that they had to get close, means the minimum limitations is once a month and having to sneak to close proximity. Not granting Mel magic control over her own fertility would mean the conception destined to create the shadow might not happen more frequently than any standard conception. That’s not considering more likely drawbacks, like it takes an equivalent amount of life and energy from the parents a full 9 month gestation would, or more even, or the supposedly weird magic possibilities, like having the conception be during a full moon or something. ---
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/97 "2012-05-23T09:18:57Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Dany can’t breed with humans. She is half-dragon, and she can only birth half-human half-dragon abominations whose skin sloughs off and crumbles to ash at the touch. There is no reason to think the death magic had anything to do with it. There’s every reason to believe death magic had to do with it. Her unborn child had to die for Drogo to live, that was the price. There was every implication that otherwise, the child was viable and destined for greatness. I interpreted the deformation and sloughing off dragon scale skins as signs of the perverting nature of blood magic, akin to a harlequin baby or a brainless frog baby. It suffered and went sour in the name of snatching life from the jaws of death. The Targaryn tendency to inbreed can be just as easily explained as their preserving the throne by keeping within their own tribe than a genetic incompatibility with other humans. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/98 "2012-05-23T12:02:03Z")
What does Robb plan to do about the whole Theon in Winterfell business? He is a King without a country as it stands and sending some guys illegitimate son is not helping. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/99 "2012-05-23T13:06:44Z")
I never got the “Dany’s uterus is lined with scales after the miscarriage” or whatever would make her sterile. She is not as sexual as the other characters considering the Khal seems to be the only man she’s been with and that she would have had to have been raped to get back her brother’s throne instead of your basic prostituting herself. As Khaleesi, she still views herself as married to Drago and I think she doesn’t see herself as remarrying and Dany would not put herself in a position to have a child out of wedlock. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528/100 "2012-05-23T13:09:50Z")
It’s not even just Theon in Winterfell, although that is the main concern. Yara took Deepwood motte and the Ironmen are basically raiding all of the north. But yeah, the plan does seem only to send Roose Boltons bastard to take back winterfell so he doesn’t have to halt his campaign in the south. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-08-the-prince-of-winterfell-5-20-no-book-spoilers/622528.md?page=6)