# Game of Thrones 2.09 "Blackwater" 5/27/12 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 27, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266 "2012-05-27T18:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/241 "2012-06-03T11:15:27Z")
[Game of Simpsons](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ-ikTAcbW8&feature=related)šŸ˜ƒ What was The Houndā€™s beef with Bronn anyway? > [@DigitalC](#): > > Plus it didnā€™t even look like that bad an injury, frankly i donā€™t even get why he was fainting. Blood loss and/or concussion? Two common side effects of being smacked in the face with a longsword. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/242 "2012-06-03T12:10:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > What was The Houndā€™s beef with Bronn anyway? The Houndā€™s work is also his hobby: killing people. He picked a fight with Bronn because heā€™s tired of picking fights with people he can beat with no effort. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/243 "2012-06-03T13:29:53Z")
They were also all on the edge because of the upcoming battle. And while Bronn and his posse were relieving their tension with camaraderie and female companionship, the Hound was too antisocial and too full of self-loathing to be capable of any release other than booze and violence. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/244 "2012-06-03T15:49:39Z")
And it gave the later scene in the battle more meaning. The Hound was starting to break because of his fear of flames. He froze in battle, and had to be rescued by someone he loathes. Someone he perceives as weaker. Worse, Bronn _knows_ that he froze up. That was the last straw for him. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/245 "2012-06-03T16:47:09Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Yeah, if that was supposed to be a hit it would have ended with one of them dead. Like I said, it was just a remote possibility I was raising. As I said previously, Bronn was being the alpha and center of attention, then Hound came in and probably found that to be an unacceptable challenge to his claim to being the baddest badass in all the land. But still, Iā€™m not so sure about your statement. The orders for the theoretical hit could have come with instructions to make it NOT look like a hit. Just like Mandon waited until he had an opportunity to make it look like Tyrion had fallen in battle, the Hound could have decided to wait for the same once he heard the warning bells ringing. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/246 "2012-06-03T17:15:09Z")
Hey, I just realized what Peter Dinklageā€™s reminds me of: The Cheetos Cheetah. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/247 "2012-06-03T17:41:02Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Hey, I just realized what Peter Dinklageā€™s reminds me of: The Cheetos Cheetah. Peter Dinklageā€™s _WHAT?!_ I assume you mean his voice? šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a5b964/32.png) [@what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/what_do_I_type_here)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/248 "2012-06-03T18:58:26Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I was thinking about the ā€œproperā€ line of succession, presuming a Salic or Semi-Salic inheritance law - OK, so Robert was king. He has offsprings but not really, so the title should by rights go to his next brother Stannis. > Had Stannis died on that beach, whoā€™d get to be the ā€œlegitā€ heir ? Renly, naturally, but heā€™s dead too so where does the title jump to next ? Back to Cersei for being the last alive on that branch of the family tree ? Nope; Salic law doesnā€™t work that way. The heir of the throne has to be a blood relative of Robert. Unless Cersei has some distant Baratheon great uncle or something, she isnā€™t in line to inherit. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/249 "2012-06-03T19:15:18Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Dangerous words, that. This is GRRM weā€™re talking about. Like Joss Whedon, he seems to derive a perverse pleasure from killing off characters his audience enjoys šŸ˜› I think judging by his injury though, heā€™s safe for now at least. While I donā€™t put it past Martin to kill him, I do put it past the showā€™s writers to kill such a major (and popular) character in such a way. If they donā€™t get a dignified death they at least tend to get clear ones. > [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > Renly, of course, has already died as of Season 2, so thatā€™s a moot point. Unless by some miracle he managed to get his wife, Margary Tyrell, pregnant before he died. Miracle being the operative word since he was by all accounts gay. Gay and sterile arenā€™t quite the same thing, you know. > [@voltaire](#): > > I think itā€™s pretty certain that Cersei was the one behind Mandonā€™s actions. I donā€™t feel convinced she would do that, at least not at this point. Tyrion _is_ her brother and I think she prefers to hurt him by proxy, not just because of the family thing but because itā€™s how she works and itā€™s only a victory for her as long as he knows it. The only reason to ā€œstrike firstā€ in such a way is if she believes Tyrion is going to kill her himself, which he obviously would not do. I find it more likely it was something to do with Joffrey, since he could be excused for feeling a little paranoid now that his uncle seems to hold the loyalty of the army. Or something else altogether (perhaps Tyrion is just in someoneā€™s way). > [@JSexton](#): > > And it gave the later scene in the battle more meaning. The Hound was starting to break because of his fear of flames. He froze in battle, and had to be rescued by someone he loathes. Someone he perceives as weaker. Worse, Bronn _knows_ that he froze up. That was the last straw for him. I didnā€™t get the impression there was any loathing. I didnā€™t think the aggressive behaviour was personal, and perhaps was even something of a compliment (regarding Bronn as an at least somewhat worthy adversary). I also thought from the looks after Bronn saved him there was more respect between them rather than an ā€œI was saved by _that_ guy?!ā€ kind of reaction from The Hound. > [@Tangent](#): > > Iā€™ve really come to like Sansa as a character. For most of season 1, she was a superficial, arrogant little bitch. Then, with the death of her father, she became at least pitiable. Now, over the course of this season, sheā€™s become very sympathetic and a much more noble character. Sheā€™s been broken down emotionally and is still very fragile, but her actions in this episode show her becoming stronger and, hopefully, less fatalistic about her situation. I still donā€™t like her. Maybe if she had have pushed Joffrey to his death when she had the chance. Although that vanguard line was nice. In fact there donā€™t seem to be a lot of female characters who arenā€™t stupid, evil or pathetic in some way. I started watching from the first episode again, to better understand the characters. In episode 2 Cersei mentions her first son who looked like Robert, and that he died. Knowing what I know now I couldnā€™t help but think there was a chance she (or Jaime) killed him. However, I donā€™t see why she should care whether her son is by Robert or Jaime if the official story is always going to be that Robert is the father, and in fact having a son that looks like Robert would help cement his position as the heir and hence her power too. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/250 "2012-06-03T20:15:06Z")
If I may put on my Jr. Psychologistā€™s Hat for a moment, Iā€™d like to speculate more about the Houndā€™s confrontation with Bronn. First off, I agree with what others have said. It was a meeting of Alpha Males. They were edgy because they knew a major battle was approaching. All that is true. But I think that in addition to all that the Hound was feeling sick and tired of his life. It took the sight of a man on fire to push him over the edge, but he was tiptoeing to the edge already. Heā€™s been a killer, and nothing but a killer, for years. Iā€™m not saying he wants to become a ballerina or something, just that heā€™s fed up with it all and wants something different. As an analogy imagine a cubicle-drone in an office. After years of dedicated faxing and stapling and TPS reports, he suddenly starts snapping at coworkers. ā€œHell, Carla, your father was an office drone. Your brothers are office drones. Some day, your sons will be office drones.ā€ and ā€œDammit, Bob! Weā€™re just office drones! You and I - weā€™re the same, donā€™t you get it? Youā€™re the same as me (only with less seniority). This is all there is in life.ā€ It amounts to a mid-life crisis. He eventually even tells his ā€œbossā€ to fuck off, then tries to run off with a girl half his age. The only thing missing is buying a ridiculously expensive horse. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/251 "2012-06-03T20:39:34Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Peter Dinklageā€™s _WHAT?!_ > > I assume you mean his voice? šŸ˜› His dinkle! No, no. His silly accent. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/252 "2012-06-03T21:35:24Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > It amounts to a mid-life crisis. He eventually even tells his ā€œbossā€ to fuck off, then tries to run off with a girl half his age. The only thing missing is buying a ridiculously expensive horse. šŸ˜ƒ Or hair plugs. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/253 "2012-06-03T22:39:13Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I started watching from the first episode again, to better understand the characters. In episode 2 Cersei mentions her first son who looked like Robert, and that he died. Knowing what I know now I couldnā€™t help but think there was a chance she (or Jaime) killed him. However, I donā€™t see why she should care whether her son is by Robert or Jaime if the official story is always going to be that Robert is the father, and in fact having a son that looks like Robert would help cement his position as the heir and hence her power too. Itā€™s pretty simple to me. She loves Jamie and is happy to bear and raise his children. She loathes Robert and is not willing to suffer being mother to his spawn. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/254 "2012-06-03T22:51:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Itā€™s pretty simple to me. She loves Jamie and is happy to bear and raise his children. She loathes Robert and is not willing to suffer being mother to his spawn. Well thatā€™s one possibility, but I didnā€™t get the impression she would kill one of her children no matter who the father was. She clearly loves her other children and I donā€™t think itā€™s purely because she likes Jaime better. In fact I didnā€™t get the impression she ā€œloathesā€ Robert anyway. She doesnā€™t like the person he became but at one point wanted to be his queen, and not just for the power. Of course I donā€™t feel entirely sure about this, thatā€™s the problem. I canā€™t find an explanation that entirely adds up to me. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/255 "2012-06-03T22:58:08Z")
Iā€™ve been watching this every week, sometimes multiple times if nothing else is on. Well today Iā€™ve had the marathon on and re-watched the episode when Jon Snow first caught Ygritte (sp?). When he swung his sword down on the stone and she escaped, I had to pause the show ā€¦ woah, I recognize that! How did I miss it the other times Iā€™ve seen this episode? I was [there last summer](http://www.flickr.com/photos/53157520@N07/6115485776/in/set-72157627472295379). At first I hadnā€™t recognized it because they were there in the winter and itā€™s almost completely covered in snow - there was virtually no snow when I was there in August. But cool, Iā€™ve been beyond the wall šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/256 "2012-06-04T01:53:04Z")
Not just cool, Iā€™d guessā€¦ downright cold! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/257 "2012-06-04T02:03:15Z")
No thread for the finale? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/258 "2012-06-04T02:09:19Z")
My bad, I thought I posted it. Then looked and it turned out I wrote the OP but then forgot to hit create thread. [Here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15129452) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266.md?page=12)