# Game of Thrones 2.09 "Blackwater" 5/27/12 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 27, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266 "2012-05-27T18:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/21 "2012-05-28T03:27:17Z")
Ah, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/22 "2012-05-28T03:28:53Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > The best moment of an episode full of great moments was wordless. As the bay burned with wildfire and men died screaming, the Hound looked terrified, Tyrion looked like a combination of proud and sick, and Jofffrey and the pyromancer were grinning. Such great acting without a single mouth opening. I particularly liked the Hound’s reaction. He’s a man who rather obviously knows what being burned is like. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/23 "2012-05-28T04:28:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So was he acting on Joffrey’s order, or someone else’s? My guess is Cersei. We saw Mandon with Cersei last week, and she vowed revenge for Tyrion sending Myrcella away. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/24 "2012-05-28T04:31:30Z")
From the moment that flaming arrow hit the water until they cut away to the Queen and Sansa, I don’t think my mouth closed. I’m going to have to watch this again tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/25 "2012-05-28T04:34:27Z")
Maaaan, that was some heavy shit. I really liked the Bronn/Hound scenes, how they went from just about killing each other to becoming battle bros, all without having to say a word. I wonder what prompted the Hound’s switch - whether it’s sheer fire-induced PTSD ; or if he’s really tired of living among all these murderous cunts (and, perhaps, tired of pretending he’s a murderous cunt himself ? He seemed so… weary during his confrontation with Bronn). For a woman who so despised her husband’s drunken ways, Cersei’s sure been hitting the sauce hard these past few episodes. Ever since her son’s on the throne, there’s hardly been a scene of hers where she hasn’t got a cup of wine. How very _Desperate Housewives_ of her. Agreed that the battle scenes were somewhat small in scope, especially if Stannis is supposed to have tens of thousands of blokes - there must have been only a couple dozen ramming that gate 😕 Loved Tyrion’s speech though. Short and to the point: “There are brave men battering on that door. Let’s kill them.” Glad to see Lancel’s balls have finally dropped. Shame it happened while he still had an arrow in him. Poor kid. Born to get punked. Ser Loras turned coat ? Didn’t see that one coming, I would have pegged him more for a Stark-friendly guy. Then again, that would have put him in the same boat as Brienne so to speak. Counter-productive sparks would have flown. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/26 "2012-05-28T04:34:51Z")
I hope that Tyrion isn’t dead. Because while Joffrey is still king, Tyrion is the one who led the troops, so he’ll have their loyalty. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/27 "2012-05-28T04:46:26Z")
Ok, Tywin has to respect Tyrion now. BTW Tyrion looked adoreable in his little armour, hacking mens legs off. I am glad that fingerless freak and sonny are dead. So what now for Stannis; his head on a spike? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/28 "2012-05-28T04:48:07Z")
Loras didn’t turn coat. He started against Stannis and stayed that way. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/29 "2012-05-28T04:54:29Z")
Oh ! I almost forgot: Heart Eater ? Seriously ? You mark my words, there’s leather, knee-high combat boots, ümlauts and preposterous face make-up in that young man’s near future. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/30 "2012-05-28T05:06:07Z")
So, if Margaery wants to be queen, and Loras is now in cohoots with the Lannisters, does that mean her marriage to Joffster has been/will be arranged? If I were the Joffster, I would sure consider that an upgrade! How dumb was Sansa for not taking Hound up on his offer? Yeah he was drunk and scary, but still, that was the time to GTFO of Dodge! Even if Stannis had taken the city, I don’t really think his priority would have been to ensure her safety. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/31 "2012-05-28T05:09:51Z")
How much would you want to bet on his honour that he’d keep you safe? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/32 "2012-05-28T05:59:00Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > How much would you want to bet on his honour that he’d keep you safe? He’s already proven that he would keep her safe, and even she keeps saying that he won’t hurt her. After all she’s been through, I think she’s still just partial to the life of living in a royal palace and just doesn’t want to leave her dream behind. As for Tyrion, that whole plan to go outside the gate was pretty dumb, as was taking off and not putting back on his helmet. And if he expected them to attack at that gate, why didn’t he have better defenses to protect it? If they couldn’t repel the men breaking down the gate, they’d have been better off just opening the damn gate and fighting everyone that tried to come through the bottleneck. It’s not like he knew that his father’s army would come to the rescue at the last second, so they would have busted through the door eventually. So why go outside the gate to fight a superior force with no advantage? Either wait for them to bust the gate and hope to thin them out in the meanwhile, or just open it and defend them at the bottleneck if you’re in such a hurry to fight it out. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/33 "2012-05-28T06:25:00Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > It’s not like he knew that his father’s army would come to the rescue at the last second, so they would have busted through the door eventually. So why go outside the gate to fight a superior force with no advantage? Destroy the ram and they’re not coming through that gate any time soon. Hey, it works in _Medieval:Total War_ :p. Besides, they did have an advantage: they were coming at Stannis’ forces backs, unexpectedly, and trapping them between aggressors and the wall so there was no escape possible. Pull it off, break their morale before they can reform their ranks/get their numbers to bear and it’s a massacre. Such sallies did happen in actual sieges, though usually with cavalry for added shock value (and naturally, faster exit strategy should it all go pear shaped). I didn’t quite grok why the Hound, Lancel & co. came out to duke it out on the beach though. Maybe they wanted to quickly finish off the survivors of the nuke before the second wave could land ? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/34 "2012-05-28T07:13:31Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Ser Loras turned coat ? Didn’t see that one coming, I would have pegged him more for a Stark-friendly guy. Then again, that would have put him in the same boat as Brienne so to speak. Counter-productive sparks would have flown. Refresh my memory on the scene you mean. And possibly who Ser Loras is. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/35 "2012-05-28T07:24:37Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Refresh my memory on the scene you mean. And possibly who Ser Loras is. Last scene, when Cersei is about to do something very, very stupid and the doors to the throne room swing open to reveal the “good guys”, powerwalking in to announce that the battle is won. The first face we see is that of Ser Loras Tyrell, the Knight of Flowers, formerly Renly’s boy toy. Still no bell ? He won the big tournament while Robert was still alive and almost got bisected by the Mountain for his trouble ? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/36 "2012-05-28T08:02:21Z")
Loras didn’t turn his coat: he swore revenge upon Stannis, so he joined up with the people who were most likely to kick Stannis’ arse. Now, Loras might have been prepared to fight Lannisters on behalf of Renly, but with Renly dead Loras had no reason to oppose the Lannisters and could therefore honourably join up with them to serve the greater purpose of Stannis arse kicking. Loras never personally had a problem with the Lannisters. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/37 "2012-05-28T08:16:25Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > So what now for Stannis; his head on a spike? I can’t see any reason - from the Lannister perspective - for not putting Stannis’ head on a pike. With both Stannis and Renly dead, the (genuine) Baratheon supporters no longer have a candidate for King. That’s a _very_ good reason for a beheading. I can’t see any upside - from the Lannister perspective - to keeping Stannis alive. ---
**Author:** ![DarkFire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@DarkFire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarkFire)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/38 "2012-05-28T08:30:43Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Loras didn’t turn his coat: he swore revenge upon Stannis, so he joined up with the people who were most likely to kick Stannis’ arse. > > Now, Loras might have been prepared to fight Lannisters on behalf of Renly, but with Renly dead Loras had no reason to oppose the Lannisters and could therefore honourably join up with them to serve the greater purpose of Stannis arse kicking. Loras never personally had a problem with the Lannisters. And more importantly than what Loras wants.. his sister said she really wanted to be queen. Which probably means their family really wants to be part of the royal family. What better way to do that then to join the Lannisters and save their asses. Wasn’t that the reason they left Renly’s camp before Stannis got there? To have time to decide who they’d back? It’s not like they just randomly showed up. They arrived with Tywin, a master at politics. I’m sure he gave them some sweet deal. [QUOTE=Fear Itself] I was surprised Tyrion put all the wildfire in one boat. He seemed a bit surprised by the size of the explosion; he looked at the maester, who gave him a little grin. [/QUOTE] I’m sure he was surprised but my impression was that it was actually more than one boat. They had prepared things and there was green liquid floating on top of the water all around the boats it seemed (you got a quick shot of that) so the boat was just for dramatic effect maybe? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/39 "2012-05-28T08:39:20Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Loras didn’t turn his coat: he swore revenge upon Stannis, so he joined up with the people who were most likely to kick Stannis’ arse. Yes, I know that. But before that he was in Renly’s camp, which happened to oppose the Lannisters (as well as Stannis). So he did flip. Presumably (it hasn’t been shown yet, but as \*\*voltaire \*\*says it seems implicit) so did Margaery, who must have gone from “I’m going to push my husband into becoming the king” to “… fuck it, I’ll marry the current king then” > [@](#): > > Now, Loras might have been prepared to fight Lannisters on behalf of Renly, but with Renly dead Loras had no reason to oppose the Lannisters and could therefore honourably join up with them to serve the greater purpose of Stannis arse kicking. Loras never personally had a problem with the Lannisters. Loras never personally had a problem with Stannis either, before Stannis killed Renly. Which doesn’t mean he wasn’t fully prepared to murder him and anybody looks like him. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/40 "2012-05-28T08:41:42Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > I can’t see any reason - from the Lannister perspective - for not putting Stannis’ head on a pike. Other than the fact that they don’t have him, you mean ? 🙂 Those were his own men dragging Stannis back to the boats, kicking and screaming because he wanted to keep on lopping heads. Like a boss. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266.md?page=3)