# Game of Thrones 2.09 "Blackwater" 5/27/12 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 27, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266 "2012-05-27T18:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/81 "2012-05-28T21:40:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Couldn’t have been range, since they just finished several volleys that went further out into the harbor. The whole flaming arrows thing seemed like a complete waste once the other side had landed on the beach. The flames added little, if anything, to the damage they inflicted. It occurs to me, sitting here and thinking about this now, that the flames could have been intended to serve as tracers, so that you’d have some idea of whether your shots were going where you wanted them to go. This idea did not occur to me last night, though, when watching–I thought it was as odd and pointless as everyone else seems to’ve. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/82 "2012-05-28T22:57:48Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Something that was pointed out to me: watch Joffrey closely when the Hound goes “fuck ALL OF Y’ALL”. The others look shocked by this development, but he looks genuinely pained and about to cry, like he’s losing his one best friend or something. It’s not a “WHOOOAAAAT ?! You DARE, sir ?!” look, but rather a completely flabbergasted “But… but I thought we were bros, you and me ? What am I supposed to\* do \*without my personal murder machine ? :(:(:(” I noticed that too. Joff didn’t look angry, he looked hurt. Joff wasn’t very nice to him, but you could tell he really enjoyed having his attack dog around. He probably felt naked and powerless without the Hound to guard him and do his bidding. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/83 "2012-05-28T23:30:32Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > I noticed that too. Joff didn’t look angry, he looked hurt. Joff wasn’t very nice to him, but you could tell he really enjoyed having his attack dog around. He probably felt naked and powerless without the Hound to guard him and do his bidding. It’s also going to make it difficult for him to have conversations with Tyrion. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/84 "2012-05-29T00:38:19Z")
Watching the episode again, I’m betting Davos is still alive. We saw him blown off the ship, but never saw him on fire or anything. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him clinging to a piece of wood in the next episode. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/85 "2012-05-29T00:52:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Couldn’t have been range, since they just finished several volleys that went further out into the harbor. The whole flaming arrows thing seemed like a complete waste once the other side had landed on the beach. Just watched this again. No volleys were loosed until Stannis’s troops hit the beach. Bronn sent a flaming arrow into the wildfire, but he was several hundred yards closer, on some peninsula, it appeared. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/86 "2012-05-29T01:18:27Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > I was too late to post in last week’s thread, so I’ll do it here (since the scene I’m going to discuss was in the “Previously On…”). > > Jack Gleeson deserves a _ **lot** _ of credit for his portrayal of Joffrey. I didn’t think anyone could possibly be as repellant and hateful as the Joffrey of the books without lapsing into parody, but damned if this kid isn’t exactly as repulsive as the story calls for. There have been any number of scenes in which I could actually feel myself balling my fist to knock that shit-eating smirk off his face. He really is repugnant. > > But I think he outdid himself in that little scene with Tyrion from last week’s episode where he describes how he’ll kill Stannis personally, if Stannis is fool enough to meet him in single combat. It wasn’t just the tone of voice and the facial expressions, it was even his stance that just screamed, “I’m a complete coward and a bully, but I have to act tough because I’m king.” I thought my hatred of the character couldn’t get any stronger, but as much as I detest cruelty in other humans, if you couple it with undeserved arrogance and a sense of entitlement, well, you just became even more loathsome in my book. Gods, what a little shit. > > He really deserves an Emmy nomination, especially since everything I’ve ever read says he’s a genuinely sweet kid in real life. On top of which, he’s achieved the impossible by making one actually feel SORRY for the little shit on certain occasions. Just one look and you feel…pity. Now, the script-writers can tell him to perform certain lines, but he absolutely delivers on all fronts. He knocks it out of the park. On the one hand you want to strangle him, on the other you’re going to feel just a little bad while you’re doing it. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/87 "2012-05-29T01:23:01Z")
The flaming arrows were at least partially effective. The trigger for the Hound’s PTSD was a flaming soldier. It may not have helped much, but they were in a desperate situation. Speaking of the Hound, he may well have surpassed Tyrion as my favorite character. Sure, he’s completely one-dimensional on the outside. His purpose is to kill, and he does it well. But he finally gets sick of that role. Over the past two seasons he’s slowly been revealing greater depth. Indeed, large portions of this season revolve around gender norms (and their violations). There’s the Hound who declares that all men are killers; that is their purpose. Cersei has an entire speech about how she and Jamie, although twins, were raised completely differently due to being different sexes. Theon believes he should be more important than his sister, due entirely to the fact that he’s a man. (I can’t think of any other reason he could possibly think he’s more deserving of her position. I think even he knows he’s a wanker.) He’d no doubt still be upset if it was a brother who kept putting him in his place, but it’s extra insulting from a woman. And of course Briene’s life story is one long struggle against expectations based on gender. On a continuity note, I loved that the doll Sansa was holding was the one given to her by Ned in season one. At the time, she pouted about being too old for dolls. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/88 "2012-05-29T02:33:31Z")
I really loved Sansa doing her level best to get her future husband killed. “Oh right, I’m stupid, OF COURSE you’ll be in the vanguard!” Nice. Little girl is growing up. Was I the only one who was getting paranoid every time Cersei passed a glass of wine to Sansa, wondering if it had a little something extra in it? Chekhov’s gun, she haz it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/89 "2012-05-29T02:34:27Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > Jack Gleeson deserves a _ **lot** _ of credit for his portrayal of Joffrey. I didn’t think anyone could possibly be as repellant and hateful as the Joffrey of the books without lapsing into parody, but damned if this kid isn’t exactly as repulsive as the story calls for. There have been any number of scenes in which I could actually feel myself balling my fist to knock that shit-eating smirk off his face. He really is repugnant. > > But I think he outdid himself in that little scene with Tyrion from last week’s episode where he describes how he’ll kill Stannis personally, if Stannis is fool enough to meet him in single combat. It wasn’t just the tone of voice and the facial expressions, it was even his stance that just screamed, “I’m a complete coward and a bully, but I have to act tough because I’m king.” I thought my hatred of the character couldn’t get any stronger, but as much as I detest cruelty in other humans, if you couple it with undeserved arrogance and a sense of entitlement, well, you just became even more loathsome in my book. Gods, what a little shit. > > He really deserves an Emmy nomination, especially since everything I’ve ever read says he’s a genuinely sweet kid in real life. Agreed - Gleeson is doing an unpleasant job very, very well. I actually feel a bit uncomfortable for the actor, though - in particular, that scene where he abuses the whores could easily be disturbing for a grown man to pull off, let alone a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/90 "2012-05-29T03:18:52Z")
The Wikipedia article on Jack Gleeson says that he just turned twenty years old, so he’s not a kid any more. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/91 "2012-05-29T08:06:26Z")
I think Shae was right, I don’t think Stannis would have harmed Sansa. So as long as she can avoid crazed rape-minded soldiers and get to him first she could be okay. For one, Stannis wouldn’t have known he had a claim to the throne if Ned Stark hadn’t informed him of such, also Sansa could be a bartering chip to call off the “King in the North!”. But I think Sansa’s going to go with the Hound. I hope the poster who said Tyrion’s wound did not look fatal is correct. I also agree that Mandon (or whoever that was) had not just decided to change sides, he had just killed someone attacking Tyrion - it seemed that he really wanted to do it himself. Did anyone see what happened to Bronn? I didn’t see him fall back with the Hound but I would have thought he’d have gone out to walls with Tyrion. Cersei was totally despicable. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/92 "2012-05-29T08:17:39Z")
It occurs to me that two of the best lines in the series revolve around corpse fucking. There was Yoren’s “there’s men out there want to fuck your corpses!” and the Hound’s “anyone who dies with a clean sword… I’ll fuck your corpse!” It would’ve been an interesting twist of Joffrey turned out to be a natural leader in battle. Sure, we all expected him to do as he did - but what if it turned out that he was prone to bloodlust and legitimately lead his troops and saved the day? Would’ve been interesting with the city now loving Joffrey and entrenched his place as king even further - which gives him the confidence to be even more of a dick, and not take shit from Tyrion. Certainly would’ve made King’s Landing a more dramatically interesting place for a while. I suppose Tywin Lannister would still backhand the kid like 50 times though. Which… would be another awesome thing about that twist. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/93 "2012-05-29T09:28:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The flames added little, if anything, to the damage they inflicted. The flaming arrows served three purposes 1. To increase terror; much like tracers do today 2. To allow adjustment of “fire” they could see where the shots fell and adjust accordingly 3. The invaders would be bringing quite a lot of seige equipment, lots of it wooden. A chance to set that alight. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/94 "2012-05-29T15:11:55Z")
I noticed Roy Dotrice’s name in the credits, I don’t know what he looks like. I don’t know if he played a role or if he was sing “The Rains of Castamere” at the end of the episode. He does most of the audio-book versions, I think it was a nice little perq for the fans. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/95 "2012-05-29T15:19:04Z")
According to IMDB he plays Hallyne, which would be the pyromancer. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/96 "2012-05-29T15:33:14Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > The flaming arrows were at least partially effective. The trigger for the Hound’s PTSD was a flaming soldier. It may not have helped much, but they were in a desperate situation. Speaking of the Hound, he may well have surpassed Tyrion as my favorite character. Sure, he’s completely one-dimensional on the outside. His purpose is to kill, and he does it well. But he finally gets sick of that role. Over the past two seasons he’s slowly been revealing greater depth. > > Indeed, large portions of this season revolve around gender norms (and their violations). There’s the Hound who declares that all men are killers; that is their purpose. Cersei has an entire speech about how she and Jamie, although twins, were raised completely differently due to being different sexes. Theon believes he should be more important than his sister, due entirely to the fact that he’s a man. (I can’t think of any other reason he could possibly think he’s more deserving of her position. I think even he knows he’s a wanker.) He’d no doubt still be upset if it was a brother who kept putting him in his place, but it’s extra insulting from a woman. And of course Briene’s life story is one long struggle against expectations based on gender. > > On a continuity note, I loved that the doll Sansa was holding was the one given to her by Ned in season one. At the time, she pouted about being too old for dolls. Not to mention Arya, who’d rather practice archery and swordplay… and Talisa, who’d rather be tending wounded men on the battlefield… ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/97 "2012-05-29T15:44:01Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > … > > On a continuity note, I loved that the doll Sansa was holding was the one given to her by Ned in season one. At the time, she pouted about being too old for dolls. Crap, I totally missed that detail. Thanks for pointing it out! ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/98 "2012-05-29T16:01:01Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Was I the only one who got really excited when they realized that the whole episode would be at King’s Landing? Yeah, I realized when I noticed a lack of any other actors in the credits. 🙂 Tyrion, Cersei, Tywin, Davos, Sansa, Joffrey, The Hound, Stannis, Bronn, Varys, Shae… and that was it. 🙂 Fantastic episode… even knowing (mostly) what happens from the books, I got chills watching it. I almost teared up when Sansa started her hymn, too. Dunno why, but that was really powerful to me, for some reason. Stellar performances from all, but particularly Cersei. Loved every scene she was in, and especially the little heart-to-heart chats with Sansa. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/99 "2012-05-29T16:48:17Z")
[This](http://i.imgur.com/3PiKQ.gif) cracked me the hell up. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/100 "2012-05-29T17:14:34Z")
Great episode. Compelling battle scenes, and great interplay between Cersei and Sansa, Tyrion and Bronn, and the Hound and Sansa. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > I really loved Sansa doing her level best to get her future husband killed. “Oh right, I’m stupid, OF COURSE you’ll be in the vanguard!” Nice. Little girl is growing up… Heheh. I really liked that, too. Punch those buttons, girl, and get your hateful, abusive fiancee to put himself in harm’s way out of pride! Since Tyrion had figured out that Stannis would be going for the Mud Gate, why not have more dragonfire on the beach there (carefully apportioned and placed so as not to endanger the city walls), ignited when the invaders came ashore? Favorite lines: Bronn: “Are we friends, now?” Tyrion: “Of course we are! I don’t think the fact that I pay you detracts from our relationship, does it?” Bronn: “Enhances it, really.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266.md?page=6)