# Game of Thrones 2.09 "Blackwater" 5/27/12 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 27, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266 "2012-05-27T18:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/141 "2012-05-29T20:46:35Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Because he probably didn’t have any orders to the contrary. Trying to remember just how/why Ilyn had his tongue removed, but if it was the Lannisters, then that actually adds depth to an otherwise one-note character. “Yeah, I’m here 'cause I’m supposed to be, but I’m not doing fuck’all more than I’m told to.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/142 "2012-05-29T20:50:19Z")
Eh, I expect that if Sansa can get to her room, Ser Ilyn probably thinks he can get to her room if he needs to kill all the women. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/143 "2012-05-29T21:05:56Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > Trying to remember just how/why Ilyn had his tongue removed, but if it was the Lannisters, then that actually adds depth to an otherwise one-note character. “Yeah, I’m here 'cause I’m supposed to be, but I’m not doing fuck’all more than I’m told to.” Nah, the Mad King did that shit. Probably because it seemed like a funny thing to do at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/144 "2012-05-29T21:08:20Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > Trying to remember just how/why Ilyn had his tongue removed, but if it was the Lannisters, then that actually adds depth to an otherwise one-note character. “Yeah, I’m here 'cause I’m supposed to be, but I’m not doing fuck’all more than I’m told to.” His tongue was ripped out by the mad king Aerys. (Or on his orders, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/145 "2012-05-29T21:11:28Z")
**Warning:** Those wishing to avoid spoilers should take care not to immediately read posts from new members with a join date of this month, because (most likely) the poster who was recently banned just tried to openly post some with a sock in the related Pit thread as a further display of his childishness. I’m glad I had my guard up, because as soon as I saw the first few words were apparently talking about the story/characters (which was out of place in that thread), I looked at the username and join date and scrolled it off screen to read the responses, which confirmed my suspicions. No telling if we can expect such behavior in this thread, but be careful. If it does happen, please don’t quote the troll, maybe just put the word **WARNING** in bold and mention that you have reported the post above. Other than that, let’s not discuss this any further here. [/carry on] ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/146 "2012-05-30T03:37:54Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Well, once they kill off the rest of the Starks, Sansa would be heir. If Cersei marries one of her children to the heir of Winterfell, then they can control a lot of important land. That’s a lot of dead Starks - at least three - to (potentially) get through, considering that males inherit first. Although with Bran and Rickon MIA (does Catelyn even know that they are “dead”, yet?) it might seem like Sansa has moved up in line considerably. But do the Starks even technically own Winterfell anymore? Wasn’t Ned branded a traitor and about to be de-lorded and sent to the Wall before Joffrey decided to lop off his head instead? Maybe Winterfell has already reverted back to the Crown. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/147 "2012-05-30T03:42:09Z")
That hasn’t explicitly been stated… but it would probably be just a matter of paperwork, once Joffrey decided he wanted Winterfell as a crown estate. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/148 "2012-05-30T04:18:34Z")
Winterfell can’t revert back to the crown because it never belonged to the crown - it was an independent kingdom under the Starks for thousands of years before the crown existed. Remember, the Seven Kingdoms are a _confederacy_; the other great lords would never allow King’s Landing to change them into the Six Kingdoms by fiat. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/149 "2012-05-30T04:19:00Z")
Well, very technically the Greyjoys own Winterfell right now 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/150 "2012-05-30T04:25:17Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Half-man! > Half-man! > Half-man! > Half-man! Are we 100% positive that’s what they were chanting? I watched again (4th time) and it still doesn’t sound like half-man. It’s the only thing that makes sense though. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/151 "2012-05-30T05:31:24Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Are we 100% positive that’s what they were chanting? I watched again (4th time) and it still doesn’t sound like half-man. It’s the only thing that makes sense though. Yeah, they’re definitely cheering half-man. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/152 "2012-05-30T13:05:34Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Yeah, they’re definitely cheering half-man. In their defense, so was I. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/153 "2012-05-30T13:10:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Something that was pointed out to me: watch Joffrey closely when the Hound goes “fuck ALL OF Y’ALL”. The others look shocked by this development, but he looks genuinely pained and about to cry, like he’s losing his one best friend or something. It’s not a “WHOOOAAAAT ?! You DARE, sir ?!” look, but rather a completely flabbergasted “But… but I thought we were bros, you and me ? What am I supposed to\* do \*without my personal murder machine ? :(:(:(” I’ve been thinking about this, and I think that in that scene Joffrey is starting to realize that people aren’t going to follow him _just_ because he’s king; that he has to earn their loyalty. So Tyrion better not be dead, because it’s going to be interesting to see what happens when _he_ has the loyalty and respect of the soldiers and not Joffrey. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/154 "2012-05-30T14:37:56Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Winterfell can’t revert back to the crown because it never belonged to the crown - it was an independent kingdom under the Starks for thousands of years before the crown existed. Remember, the Seven Kingdoms are a _confederacy_; the other great lords would never allow King’s Landing to change them into the Six Kingdoms by fiat. I’m not so sure. I suspect, one way or the other, Joffrey’s going to want to have Winterfell under his thumb - perhaps he could palm it off on some lesser Lannister - Lancel, maybe? He would never tolerate having another Stark in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/155 "2012-05-30T14:52:16Z")
Also, as far as the world at large is concerned, the only Stark that needs to die in order for Sansa to collect Winterfell is Robb and the Lannisters mean to kill him toot-sweet! ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/156 "2012-05-30T15:09:41Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Also, as far as the world at large is concerned, the only Stark that needs to die in order for Sansa to collect Winterfell is Robb and the Lannisters mean to kill him toot-sweet! The world at large doesn’t yet know that Bran and Rickon are supposed to be dead. We saw that the Iron Islanders had killed all the ravens back in episode 2.08, meaning that the news _won’t_ be getting out any time soon. As far as the world at large knows, there are three living male heirs to Winterfell. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/157 "2012-05-30T15:29:27Z")
This has been bugging me for a couple of weeks. What the heck kind of skull is the Lord of Bones dude’s hat made out of? It’s way too big to be human, plus the cheekbones look wrong, and there appear to be a couple of pointy teeth still in their sockets. Of course, it could just be a bitchin’ hat made of metal or wood or what have you. Maybe he figured with a name like that he needed some death metal album cover headgear to round out the image. And is Lord of Bones a badass nickname, like Kinglsayer, or is it a job title like Vice President? If the latter, is there one in every wildling camp, to take care of the community’s bone-lording needs with a bunch of Trainees of Bones working for him? Or is it more of of Dark Lord of the Sith thing? Would that mean there’s a Pope of Bones? A Bone Advisory Council? Not that I want an answer right now, I just hope they cover it at some point and don’t just leave cool stuff like this hanging out there. An hour of dismemberments, green explosions, narrow victories, T&A, and Bronn singing(!), and here I am thinking about a hat from 2 weeks ago.That’s the definition of a good TV show. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/158 "2012-05-30T15:48:26Z")
They mention giants in the series - I think way back at the beginning when Old Nan is knitting and telling Bran stories - so I thought maybe it was a giant’s skull. And I always thought Lord Of Bones was a nickname (shit, everyone has one!) but “job title” is far more funny. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/159 "2012-05-30T15:50:30Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > This has been bugging me for a couple of weeks. What the heck kind of skull is the Lord of Bones dude’s hat made out of? It’s way too big to be human, plus the cheekbones look wrong, and there appear to be a couple of pointy teeth still in their sockets. Of course, it could just be a bitchin’ hat made of metal or wood or what have you. Maybe he figured with a name like that he needed some death metal album cover headgear to round out the image. This question can’t be answered without violating the rules in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266/160 "2012-05-30T15:55:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This question can’t be answered without violating the rules in the OP. I think that’s implicit when he says: > [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Not that I want an answer right now, I just hope they cover it at some point and don’t just leave cool stuff like this hanging out there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-09-blackwater-5-27-12-no-book-spoilers/623266.md?page=9)