# Game of Thrones 2.10 "Valar Morghulis" 6/3/12 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 4, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987 "2012-06-04T02:08:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/121 "2012-06-04T22:06:46Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I think it will be interesting to see how the soldiers react. They know what Tyrion meant to the battle, even Tywin’s men will have heard from those at King’s Landing. My guess is that Tyrion’s method back into the “game” will be through gaining favor with the common soldiers. He also has a commoner’s touch that is completely lacking all other Lannisters. Bear in mind that not many of “his” soldiers seem to have survived, whereas Tywin and the Tyrells brought a buttload of troops into the city who don’t know him from Adam. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/122 "2012-06-04T22:09:37Z")
BTW, why don’t folks gag their prisoners? Brienne let’s Jamie prattle on, to her annoyance and Jon let Ygritte belittle him. Why not just stick a sock in their yap? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/123 "2012-06-05T00:31:05Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > On the other hand, yet again more and more people keep referencing how anyone can die at any time and _again_ it’s all cheesy, predictable, everybody made it just in the nick of time! Phew! This wouldn’t bother me at all – wouldn’t have even occured to me, in fact – except for all the nerd-gloating about how ruthless the author was in the source material. Please, I’m begging you guys, just don’t mention or reference that ever again because all it does is make me roll my eyes at the actual show that repeatedly hasn’t killed any main characters accept Ned. I’d imagine they’ll be more if given time - time to hook us on liking the characters first. This episode reminded us of a major death, though - Khal Drogo. He was a really interesting character in the show and you really felt like he was going to play a major role, and then boom, gone. That was a pretty major game changer, and his small appearance in last night’s episode reminded me of how much I liked him and what he brought to the show. In other news, when someone offers you the chance to become a badass face changing assassin, you take it. Arya fucked that one up. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/124 "2012-06-05T00:37:05Z")
Also, Robb, you dipshit. Not only did you fuck up on the marriage vs mistress thing, but you rushed the marriage. Your army is south of your home and the way that leads back is a bridge held by the guy you just fucked over. Ever think you may need to retreat or even rush back up north to save something? You just burned the bridge to go home. What’s the rush? Wait till you’re not caught between the Lannisters and the Freys to get married. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/125 "2012-06-05T00:40:47Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Could Tywin’s crap treatment of Tyrion be part of a deeper plan? Blame Tyrion’s treatment on Joffrey … and who wouldn’t buy that? … and then more leverage to remove Joffrey from the throne. He can’t be thrilled with the kid. It’s an old technique right out of Machiavelli’s “The Prince.” And what about the other way around? Blaming Tyrion for all Joffrey’s excesses? Wasn’t he supposed to be in charge, as hand of the king? ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/126 "2012-06-05T01:18:18Z")
[Jacquen, master of disguise](http://i.imgur.com/DXUXQ.gif) (GIF) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/127 "2012-06-05T01:49:44Z")
What was Tyrion doing before the show started? Wasn’t he already living at King’s Landing? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/128 "2012-06-05T02:00:07Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > [Jacquen, master of disguise](http://i.imgur.com/DXUXQ.gif) (GIF) Ha! ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/129 "2012-06-05T02:24:50Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > What was Tyrion doing before the show started? Wasn’t he already living at King’s Landing? My impression is that Tyrion’s role was like the second son of the wealthy family, the one who’s not being groomed for anything because nothing is expected of him. This type is all over 19th century novels. They get sent on world tours, daddy pays the debts, and the man returns home at 35 or 40 and gets a desk at daddy’s bank but has no real responsibility. He marries someone chosen for him, keeps a mistress, maybe gets elected to Parliament in a district where he can’t do any damage. No one was surprised when Tyrion went to visit the Wall, and he mentioned Dornish women more than once. I think he’s been traveling, seeing the world. That might also explain his rapport with non-court types, like Shagga and Bronn. And Maud, at the Eyrie. ETA: Definitely a black sheep, as evidenced by the “sins” he confessed to Lisa Arryn. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/130 "2012-06-05T02:38:08Z")
Didn’t he mention something about being in charge of the sewage at casterly rock? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/131 "2012-06-05T02:47:13Z")
[The finale](http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/06/04/game-of-thrones-sets-series-high-for-viewers-in-2nd-season-finale/136778/) broke 4 million viewers on first showing for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/132 "2012-06-05T03:19:50Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > Because we didn’t get a scene with Tyrion and his father we have to go by what was shown. Tyrion wakes up in what looks like a crappy store room -I’m pretty sure there’s a few nice rooms still available in that castle. Then dad took away any power he had and also let Cersei have her way - which we glean from Tyrion being informed about the Gold Cloaks. I think the reason we didn’t get a Tywin/Tyrion scene is because Tywin doesn’t give a rat’s ass about him. Doesn’t matter that King’s Landing would have been overrun by Stannis by the time Tywin got there had it not been for Tyrion’s leadership. > > I agree the warlock’s death was a little anti-climactic but it showed that he had underestimated Dany and the dragons. I think Tywin is clearly punishing Tyrion by removing him to the crap rooms and dismissing his contributions to the fight with Stannis, but I don’t think Tywin’s being an ass because he doesn’t care about Tyrion. I think it’s directly because Tywin is pissed off that Tyrion did, in fact, bring his whore to court with him. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/133 "2012-06-05T03:40:05Z")
How much time elapsed in the story between the end of the first season and the start of the second? Because I’m wondering about when the third season will be set. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/134 "2012-06-05T03:44:06Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > I think Tywin is clearly punishing Tyrion by removing him to the crap rooms and dismissing his contributions to the fight with Stannis, but I don’t think Tywin’s being an ass because he doesn’t care about Tyrion. > > I think it’s directly because Tywin is pissed off that Tyrion did, in fact, bring his whore to court with him. If that’s what Tywin was pissed off about, the easy fix would be to cut Shea’s throat. Shea’s dead, Tyrion’s punished, job done. I don’t see Tywin leaving Shae alone and punishing Tyrion for it by taking away his power base. Tywin took away Tyrion’s power base because Cersei and Joffery complained to Tywin that Tyrion had been abusing his power, and Tywin believed them. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/135 "2012-06-05T03:51:23Z")
And I doubt Maester Pycelle put in a good word… ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/136 "2012-06-05T03:55:17Z")
I assumed that Tyrion was imprisoned because he would be popular with the public and the soldiers and so would be a threat to Joffrey. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/137 "2012-06-05T04:09:53Z")
I think we’re meant to believe that only Varys and Podrick know about Shae. **Ellis Dee** , just for my own curiosity, what character deaths would you consider to be major? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/138 "2012-06-05T04:22:46Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I think we’re meant to believe that only Varys and Podrick know about Shae. > > **Ellis Dee** , just for my own curiosity, what character deaths would you consider to be major? I dunno, Cersei’s suspicions about Shae sure did seem to be aroused in the encounter during the battle. She asked some specific questions that pointed towards her putting two and two together. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/139 "2012-06-05T05:18:29Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > I love you and want to have your murderous shadow babies. I’ll bet you say that to all the boys. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987/140 "2012-06-05T05:42:17Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > If that’s what Tywin was pissed off about, the easy fix would be to cut Shea’s throat. Shea’s dead, Tyrion’s punished, job done. I don’t see Tywin leaving Shae alone and punishing Tyrion for it by taking away his power base. > > Tywin took away Tyrion’s power base because Cersei and Joffery complained to Tywin that Tyrion had been abusing his power, and Tywin believed them. I think, rather, that Cersei and Joffery complained to Tywin that Tyrion had been abusing his power, and Tywin _just didn’t care_. Tywin sees his family members as tools, nothing more. Tyrion served his purpose, and now Tywin can go back to ignoring him until he needs him again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-2-10-valar-morghulis-6-3-12-no-book-spoilers/623987.md?page=8)