# Game of Thrones 3.01 "Valar Dohaeris" 3/31/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2013, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244 "2013-03-29T07:32:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/81 "2013-04-02T21:45:25Z")
Oh, my favorite line: It’s not slander if it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/82 "2013-04-02T22:10:21Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Yeah, Tyrion being a dwarf means Lady Lannister died in vain. If only Tyrion had been normal then Tywin’s attitude towards him would be very, very different even if nothing about his behavior was different. I am sure Peter Dinklage has plenty of Method to bring to these exchanges. It’s like Children of a Smaller God… ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/83 "2013-04-02T22:11:32Z")
I’m late to the bandwagon but now I’m all caught up and damn if this show isn’t compelling. I’m obsessed with the Tyrian character. Is he really an underachiever? He’s clearly well read even if he’s got a penchant for drinking and whoring (though they’ve toned down the drinking aspect since early season 1). The talent and the intelligence is clearly present - he’s not exactly Tommy Boy. I always figured the reason he’s underused is just a result of sheer prejudice rather than a lack of ambition. Also, why can’t Jaime be married off? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/84 "2013-04-02T22:27:55Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > …Also, why can’t Jaime be married off? Members of the Kingsguard take vows of celibacy (though not chastity) and are forbidden from inheriting land. This is to ensure their loyalty to the Crown (over there own families) and to discourage any dynastic ambitions. Similiar logic was behind the Chinese practice of filling high imperial offices with eunuchs. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/85 "2013-04-02T22:28:38Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Also, why can’t Jaime be married off? He’s a member of the Kingsguard, which means that he gave up his right to any title or family. As the Kingsguard is for life, Jaime was effectively removed from the line of succession. Edit: Faceless Manned! ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/86 "2013-04-02T22:35:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Edit: Faceless Manned! Wha. . .? Oh! Haha! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/87 "2013-04-02T22:41:45Z")
Why the hell did Jaime want to be in the Kingsguard anyway? Makes since for any other knight, but he stood in line to be in charge of one of the richest and most powerful families. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/88 "2013-04-02T22:58:35Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Why the hell did Jaime want to be in the Kingsguard anyway? Makes since for any other knight, but he stood in line to be in charge of one of the richest and most powerful families. Because getting married would be like cheating on his beloved sister Cersei, and being in the Kingsguard provides a convenient, socially acceptable, excuse not to marry. It’s no different than a gay man joining the priesthood IRL (or in Westroes becoming a Septon or Maester). ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/89 "2013-04-02T22:59:24Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Why the hell did Jaime want to be in the Kingsguard anyway? Makes since for any other knight, but he stood in line to be in charge of one of the richest and most powerful families. Maybe because he can’t marry the woman he loves. Yikes, can you imagine the grief in store for a wife of Jaime? Speaking of that slander line, didn’t someone already tell Tywin about Jaime and Cersei? Or is Cersei worried about something else? ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/90 "2013-04-02T23:21:49Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > I’m late to the bandwagon but now I’m all caught up and damn if this show isn’t compelling. I’m obsessed with the Tyrian character. > > Is he really an underachiever? He’s clearly well read even if he’s got a penchant for drinking and whoring (though they’ve toned down the drinking aspect since early season 1). The talent and the intelligence is clearly present - he’s not exactly Tommy Boy. I always figured the reason he’s underused is just a result of sheer prejudice rather than a lack of ambition. Yeah it’s mostly prejudice. Tywin thinks producing a dwarf son reflects poorly on him, so Tyrion was never given any real responsibility so he never really had a chance to shine. Tyrion mentions to Varys in season 2 that before he was appointed acting Hand the largest responsibility his father entrusted to him was supervising the drains and sewers of Casterly Rock. I got the impression that before the shit hit the fan that Tyrion spent most of his time reading, drinking, whoring, and going on little vacations to see things like The Wall, rather than devoting himself to serious affairs. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/91 "2013-04-02T23:29:58Z")
Stannis sent those letters out to every single castle in the seven kingdoms, someone has to have mentioned it to Tywin. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/92 "2013-04-02T23:44:21Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Edit: Faceless Manned! 😃 > [@pancakes3](#): > > I’m late to the bandwagon but now I’m all caught up and damn if this show isn’t compelling. I’m obsessed with the Tyrian character. > > Is he really an underachiever? He’s clearly well read even if he’s got a penchant for drinking and whoring (though they’ve toned down the drinking aspect since early season 1). The talent and the intelligence is clearly present - he’s not exactly Tommy Boy. I always figured the reason he’s underused is just a result of sheer prejudice rather than a lack of ambition. > > Also, why can’t Jaime be married off? Tyrion also can’t resist displaying his cleverness by abusing people whenever he has the opportunity. It’s almost like he has an anti-diplomacy compulsion. And the more powerful someone is, the more he needlessly tweaks them. He’s nice to whores, Shae, Bran, and Sansa. But when Lysa can kill him at the drop of a hat, he’s as obnoxious to her as possible. Slapping the shit out of Joff, insulting him at every turn, and basically daring him to retaliate are very, very poor choices for his own interests, but he can’t help himself. He gives Bron and Jaime shit too, but they don’t seem to mind, so it’s more friendly in effect. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/93 "2013-04-02T23:55:10Z")
Tyrion is an equal opportunity shit-giver. It’s how the shit-receiver accepts his gift that makes the difference. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/94 "2013-04-03T00:45:34Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Stannis sent those letters out to every single castle in the seven kingdoms, someone has to have mentioned it to Tywin. Tywin must be aware of the rumours, but nothing short of Jaime or Cersei personally confessing to him (or catching them in the act) will make him believe them. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/95 "2013-04-03T01:14:27Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Tywin must be aware of the rumours, but nothing short of Jaime or Cersei personally confessing to him (or catching them in the act) will make him believe them. Do we have any reason to think Tywin doesn’t believe the rumors? Obviously he has to deny them in public, but he must know his own children… ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/96 "2013-04-03T01:20:54Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Stannis sent those letters out to every single castle in the seven kingdoms, someone has to have mentioned it to Tywin. Would _you_ mention it to Tywin? I wouldn’t as I’d like to continue to live. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/97 "2013-04-03T01:24:41Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > I’m late to the bandwagon but now I’m all caught up and damn if this show isn’t compelling. I’m obsessed with the Tyrian character. > > Is he really an underachiever? He’s clearly well read even if he’s got a penchant for drinking and whoring (though they’ve toned down the drinking aspect since early season 1). The talent and the intelligence is clearly present - he’s not exactly Tommy Boy. I always figured the reason he’s underused is just a result of sheer prejudice rather than a lack of ambition. > > > [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > > > I got the impression that before the shit hit the fan that Tyrion spent most of his time reading, drinking, whoring, and going on little vacations to see things like The Wall, rather than devoting himself to serious affairs. But that’s the thing, Tyrion’s traveling and regular \*descending \*of the social ladder has taught him how the real world works outside of the palace gates. And the lack of serious duties and responsibilities has apparently given him the time to be well-read and knowledgeable on a wide variety of subjects. Meanwhile, by just being a Lannister and hanging around his family, he’s pretty familiar with how the whole noble/royal world works, with all it’s pretense and intrigues. Put that all together and there can’t be many people in all of Westeros who are as capable and well-rounded. He is… he’s… he uhh… he doesn’t always drink mead, but when he does, he prefers _Doth Rakis_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/98 "2013-04-03T02:07:39Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > Tyrion also can’t resist displaying his cleverness by abusing people whenever he has the opportunity. It’s almost like he has an anti-diplomacy compulsion. And the more powerful someone is, the more he needlessly tweaks them. He’s nice to whores, Shae, Bran, and Sansa. But when Lysa can kill him at the drop of a hat, he’s as obnoxious to her as possible. Slapping the shit out of Joff, insulting him at every turn, and basically daring him to retaliate are very, very poor choices for his own interests, but he can’t help himself. He gives Bron and Jaime shit too, but they don’t seem to mind, so it’s more friendly in effect. Well, yes he’s abrasive but I don’t think it’s hubris in his cleverness. When he slaps Joff, he’s trying to teach him a lesson ON diplomacy - to kiss up to the Starks as to not offend them. He does mouth off, but deep down he’s one of the least duplicitous and more honorable characters on the show - especially with how he tries to “guide” Joffery. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/99 "2013-04-03T02:14:43Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Do we have any reason to think Tywin doesn’t believe the rumors? Obviously he has to deny them in public, but he must know his own children… It’s an abominable sin that would mean the destruction of his house and family. Tywin will refuse to accept that it’s true, even to himself, unless it was utterly impossible for him to deny. Never be surprised at how far into denial people can sink. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/100 "2013-04-03T02:53:29Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Speaking of that slander line, didn’t someone already tell Tywin about Jaime and Cersei? Or is Cersei worried about something else? I assumed she was affraid he would badmouth her beloved son. Though thinking twice now, I suppose that Tywin is probably pretty well informed about his grandson’s flaws. It’s not like he tried to hide his outrageous behavior. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244.md?page=6)