# Game of Thrones 3.01 "Valar Dohaeris" 3/31/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2013, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244 "2013-03-29T07:32:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/101 "2013-04-03T03:03:56Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > It’s an abominable sin that would mean the destruction of his house and family. Tywin will refuse to accept that it’s true, even to himself, unless it was utterly impossible for him to deny. Never be surprised at how far into denial people can sink. That would be apply pretty well in real life. I’m not sure it does in this show. Most of the characters are ready to ignore about any kind of crime or depravity as long as it doesn’t impede their own intrigues. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/102 "2013-04-03T03:22:31Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That would be apply pretty well in real life. I’m not sure it does in this show. Most of the characters are ready to ignore about any kind of crime or depravity as long as it doesn’t impede their own intrigues. As with much of European history (as I understand it, though of course GoT is exaggerated), what would matter would be how discreet they are about it. Cersei and Jaime are quite discreet. Tyrion practically takes out a float in the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade and fucks whores on it. The former, while a potential liability, has a much better chance of staying merely “potential”; the latter is a constant smear on the House Lannister name. ETA: Plausible deniability, in other words. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/103 "2013-04-03T03:41:27Z")
Yeah but whoring doesn’t really carry the same negative connotations in the GoT universe than in today’s age. It seems like there are more whores than milkmaids in Westeros. The dwarfism is a much bigger “shame” than paying for sex. Plus, he’s into regular chicks. He’s not into little boys, amputees, or corpses like other nobles. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/104 "2013-04-03T04:22:53Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Yeah but whoring doesn’t really carry the same negative connotations in the GoT universe than in today’s age. It seems like there are more whores than milkmaids in Westeros. The dwarfism is a much bigger “shame” than paying for sex. Plus, he’s into regular chicks. He’s not into little boys, amputees, or corpses like other nobles. But marrying a whore will get you laughed at just as much in the GOT universe as it would in contemporary society. Tywin isn’t worried about Tyrion’s moral turpitude. He hates the idea of people talking behind his back about his silly little son who drinks too much and marries prostitutes. Most people don’t know Tyrion on a personal level, they just hear the stories. The common people of King’s Landing think Tyrion is Joffrey’s evil adviser. He did show up with a force of barbarians and sell swords who started summarily executing all the suspected criminals in the city. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/105 "2013-04-03T04:31:59Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > But that’s the thing, Tyrion’s traveling and regular \*descending \*of the social ladder has taught him how the real world works outside of the palace gates. And the lack of serious duties and responsibilities has apparently given him the time to be well-read and knowledgeable on a wide variety of subjects. Meanwhile, by just being a Lannister and hanging around his family, he’s pretty familiar with how the whole noble/royal world works, with all it’s pretense and intrigues. > > Put that all together and there can’t be many people in all of Westeros who are as capable and well-rounded. He is… he’s… he uhh… he doesn’t always drink mead, but when he does, he prefers _Doth Rakis_. 😃 I quite agree, but do you think that Tywin “I have more money than The Red God, my farts don’t stink and my family goes back a billion years” Lannister feels positively about his son regularly descending the social ladder? Tywin doesn’t think niceness is a virtue. His own father was a nice guy and it led to many people taking advantage of and opposing House Lannister. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/106 "2013-04-03T04:53:15Z")
Dany meeting Barristan Selmy was very affecting. We know her father wasn’t a good ruler and that he deserved what happened to him, and now here’s Selmy, a man of respect from Westeros, apologizing, and pledging himself to her. The look on her face was that of someone who is seeing the possibilities for the first time. It was also a wistful look, kind of “what if” – if not for Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark, how different her life would have been. (Well, duh.) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/107 "2013-04-03T05:03:52Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > …It was also a wistful look, kind of “what if” – if not for Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark, how different her life would have been. (Well, duh.) One one had she’d be a princess living in pampered luxury, on the other hand she’d have been married to _Viserys_ as soon as her red flower bloomed. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/108 "2013-04-03T05:26:14Z")
From Tywins speech to Tyrion, I can deduce that while Tyrion has been locked up/out wounded, Cersei and Pycelle have been bad mouthing Tyrion to Daddy. Since, frankly if Tywin had an unbiased appraisal of Tyrions performance as Hand, he would not have stated that Tyrion wasted his time. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/109 "2013-04-03T10:48:38Z")
I thought Cersi was afraid Tyrion would tell their father she tried to have him killed. He may despise his dwarf son, but nobody tries to kill a Lannister. He would not have taken kindly to that. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/110 "2013-04-03T12:52:35Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Prepare for the new season by creating your [Coat of Arms](http://www.jointherealm.com/)! Late to the party, but I [made one](http://oi46.tinypic.com/2ppx16s.jpg)! ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/111 "2013-04-03T14:12:40Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > One one had she’d be a princess living in pampered luxury, on the other hand she’d have been married to _Viserys_ as soon as her red flower bloomed. :eek: Possibly, but more likely she would be married to her brother Rhaegar’s son, who was born around the same time as Dany. (but killed by the Lannisters in the rebellion) I’m not sure if marrying your nephew is weirder than marrying your brother though. Rhaegar’s son would be heir to the throne, making Dany an eventual queen. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/112 "2013-04-03T14:22:13Z")
Incidentally, while it seems like Dany is everyone’s least favorite part of the show, I find myself rooting for her. Sure, she’s been a little bit unhinged now and then, but she usually seems halfway decent–though the slavery rationalization is a great deal like the actual rationalizations used by some real slaveholders in history (and colonializers). Plus, she’s got fucking DRAGONS. I’d put her right behind Tyrion Lannister on my personal list of “People For Whom I Would Vote to be King”. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/113 "2013-04-03T14:52:31Z")
I don’t know, “at least you won’t cut off their nipples” seems pretty solid to me. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/114 "2013-04-03T15:35:45Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > It was also a wistful look, kind of “what if” – 75% of her scenes are her [Dany] giving wistful look off into nowhere. The rest are her naked. Then of course are scenes are her naked \*\*and \*\*looking wistfully off into nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/115 "2013-04-03T15:47:46Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Incidentally, while it seems like Dany is everyone’s least favorite part of the show, I find myself rooting for her. Sure, she’s been a little bit unhinged now and then, but she usually seems halfway decent–though the slavery rationalization is a great deal like the actual rationalizations used by some real slaveholders in history (and colonializers). Plus, she’s got fucking DRAGONS. I’d put her right behind Tyrion Lannister on my personal list of “People For Whom I Would Vote to be King”. I haven’t read the books. Having watched the show, it appears that Dany is the one being positioned as the “ruler of destiny” - unlike her brother, she has magic and dragons and a kind nature who empathizes with her people and engenders their love. And she appears to be starting from the roughest position - no army, exiled in a distant land, originally not the claimant - just supporting her brother, etc… So while there various other claimants to the Iron Throne, I have assumed that Dany is being positioned as the Queen of Destiny, i.e., the person who ends up winning. Now, whether GRRM set that up so he could switchback later and kill her off or something else, I have no clue…and for now, don’t want to know 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/116 "2013-04-03T15:48:04Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > 75% of her scenes are her [Dany] giving wistful look off into nowhere. The rest are her naked. Then of course are scenes are her naked \*\*and \*\*looking wistfully off into nowhere. I would like to register my vote for more of #3, please. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/117 "2013-04-04T14:28:01Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Cersei found out that Tyrion had a whore, but nabbed the wrong girl. I assume Tywin heard it from her. Yeah, she had Ros tortured instead, but she’s apparently gotten some measure of protection from Littlefinger (and secretly, Varys) now, so she’s still around to banter with Shae. (but apparently hasn’t played the, “I got tortured in your place” card yet.) ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/118 "2013-04-04T16:47:16Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I haven’t read the books. Having watched the show, it appears that Dany is the one being positioned as the “ruler of destiny” - unlike her brother, she has magic and dragons and a kind nature who empathizes with her people and engenders their love. And she appears to be starting from the roughest position - no army, exiled in a distant land, originally not the claimant - just supporting her brother, etc… > > So while there various other claimants to the Iron Throne, I have assumed that Dany is being positioned as the Queen of Destiny, i.e., the person who ends up winning. Now, whether GRRM set that up so he could switchback later and kill her off or something else, I have no clue…and for now, don’t want to know 😉 My guess is if anyone has Plot Armor, it’s Danaerys. But of course with GRRM, that’s a big “if.” I do hope they accelerate her story this season - last season it really started to drag. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/119 "2013-04-04T18:02:39Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > My guess is if anyone has Plot Armor, it’s Danaerys. But of course with GRRM, that’s a big “if.” I do hope they accelerate her story this season - last season it really started to drag. I think her story is going to drag on again this year. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244/120 "2013-04-04T20:21:11Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > My guess is if anyone has Plot Armor, it’s Danaerys. But of course with GRRM, that’s a big “if.” I do hope they accelerate her story this season - last season it really started to drag. She’s getting her own [spin-off](http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/d2acef508a/where-are-my-dragons) 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-01-valar-dohaeris-3-31-13-no-book-spoilers/654244.md?page=5)