# Game of Thrones 3.02 "Dark Wings, Dark Words" 4/7/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 7, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093 "2013-04-07T19:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/41 "2013-04-08T16:53:51Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > What were those again? I’ve forgotten a lot since the last season. To be queen. She’s the Rachel Berry of Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/42 "2013-04-08T17:02:49Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Margaery has been very clear on her intentions, at least to littlefinger. We know Margaery is ambitious and calculating, even manipulative. She can also be “nice” too. Manipulating a spoiler jerk and keeping your gay husband’s secrets (while he’s alive) are one thing. What we haven’t seen is Margaery put in a position where she has to make a choice that might cause harm to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/43 "2013-04-08T17:23:40Z")
Regardless of what she’s said to whom, we have no way of knowing her real answer to “Where do you see yourself in 5 years?” Queen who spends her time, in between state dinners, defending herself by deflecting king’s dangerous impulses onto other people? Queen who controls the realm through her secret manipulation of a weak king? Widowed queen regent, raising an heir who will be under her family’s control for his entire life? Ie. Cersei’s plan, circa late Season 1. Important person in her father’s/brother’s court, after the Tyrells double-cross and squash the Lannisters? Maybe she’s keeping her options open. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/44 "2013-04-08T17:38:36Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’ve never tried the “hey, lets go kill things together” angle on a date. Maybe that’s why I’m single. I thought that her manipulation of Joffrey was the best part of this episode. The second best part being Sansa’s interview by granny. “A blood-thirsty monster? OK, let’s use manipulation plan 7b. Thanks for the hint :)” ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/45 "2013-04-08T18:12:17Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > :smack: Ooh, good catch. No idea what this means regarding the X. I just thought that the mystery wasn’t much of a mystery since each locale has such distinct costuming. His torturers are all dressed like every other person from the Iron Islands. He wasn’t supposed to attack Winterfell, he was supposed to attack fishing villages. His dad is torturing him. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/46 "2013-04-08T18:13:34Z")
sorry, double post. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/47 "2013-04-08T18:14:45Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Maybe I’m an idiot, but I thought those two kids who found Bran, et al were some kind of freaky forest spirits until they identified themselves. Having read the books, I knew who they were, but I still thought the same. They looked (especially the boy with his freakingly huge eyes and childish facial features)and behaved like some sort of elf. I guess it’s deliberate, but I wonder why. > [@](#): > > King Joffrey was in peril of becoming a cliched sniveling/cruel evil dickhead, but now the royal family story is a lot more interesting. He’s showing much less of the adolescent bravado and is acting…deflated? As though the reality of his tenuous position and his own inadequacy as a king (and person) has finally seeped through. He was \*in peril" of becoming a cruel evil dickhead :eek: ? How much more beheadings, fights to death on his birthday and having her fiance punched by his guards would it take for you to say he actually is a cruel evil dickhead??? I don’t think the idea is that he’s mellowing. He only acts more sanely in the presence of his “will you like my slutty dress when we’ll kill things together?” new fiancee. And this opinion isn’t based on my knowledge of the story, since I read the books long ago and have forgoten what the dynamic was supposed to be between them. I was happily surprised, in fact. > [@](#): > > Is Marjorie actually nice, or just doing her best to shore up the crown (and her position with it, or maybe without it) with the Princess Di charitable PR stuff. . I’m wondering the same. She might be manipulative and genuinely nice/concerned about poors and orphans. Cersei is convinced that it isn’t genuine “Yes, I’m suuuure she knows what she is doing” (previous episode), and she knows a bit about manipulation. On the other hand she doesn’t know much about genuinely nice people. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/48 "2013-04-08T18:17:26Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > No idea what this means regarding the X. > > I just thought that the mystery wasn’t much of a mystery since each locale has such distinct costuming. His torturers are all dressed like every other person from the Iron Islands. He wasn’t supposed to attack Winterfell, he was supposed to attack fishing villages. His dad is torturing him. The House of Bolton’ sigil is the flayed man, basically a picture of red man (presumably a man without his skin) in an x-position, much, like Theon was (the x part not the skinless part). They are sworn to the Starks. These are the same people who met Jamie and Brienne on the bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/49 "2013-04-08T18:39:30Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > The House of Bolton’ sigil is the flayed man, basically a picture of red man (presumably a man without his skin) in an x-position, much, like Theon was (the x part not the skinless part). They are sworn to the Starks. These are the same people who met Jamie and Brienne on the bridge. They’re also the same people who were sent by Robb Stark to recapture Winterfell. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/50 "2013-04-08T18:43:47Z")
double post ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/51 "2013-04-08T18:50:52Z")
> [@HammerJoe](#): > > After two episodes this season I dont really know where they are going with the story. That’s why it’s really a good idea to read the books, and treat the TV show as more of a “illustrated guide” than the end product ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/52 "2013-04-08T18:55:17Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > Margaery playing Joff was truly impressive. I think of her like one of those extraordinary people who rescues and trains wild bears, or tigers (or lions I suppose!). They really do seem to have some abilities and understanding that makes them much safer than the average schmoe going into that cage would be. But still, every once in a while, one of the animals just gets a wild hair and mauls the person to death. She’s playing a dangerous game, but she plays it incredibly well. She is one of the few people in this world with brains- the list is very short. Most Royalty in this world have room temperature IQ’s- and Winter is Coming. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/53 "2013-04-08T18:55:44Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > He was \*in peril" of becoming a cruel evil dickhead :eek: ? How much more beheadings, fights to death on his birthday and having her fiance punched by his guards would it take for you to say he actually is a cruel evil dickhead??? Oh no, I didn’t mean that he was an OK guy before, I meant that his characterization was veering perilously close to a cliched type-the nasty momma’s boy, if you will. He’s totally been an evil dick, and is likely to will continue to be one. > [@clairobscur](#): > > I don’t think the idea is that he’s mellowing. He only acts more sanely in the presence of his “will you like my slutty dress when we’ll kill things together?” new fiancee. Again, I should have been clearer. I don’t think he’s mellowed out, rather, it’s that he’s largely gotten over the gleefully drunk-on-power phase and now seems flatter or more subdued, and is possibly sliding further down the psycho path. Before the battle, he was loudly sure of himself, at least in public. Now, it seems like he’s realized that he’s in real danger and not up to the job and that’s got him a bit scared. Still a massive dickhead. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/54 "2013-04-08T19:01:07Z")
Semi-serious question about this show. Brienne and Jaime are walking for a really long time, right? How do either of them poop? Jaime’s hands are tied so she’d probably have to help him with that whole procedure. Does she have to wipe him too? When she has to drop a deuce, does she just tie him to a tree and go hide behind some bushes for a few minutes? I know, I’m sure the books explain this in great detail and Martin probably spends 20 pages describing exactly this process, but I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/55 "2013-04-08T19:10:03Z")
Martin describes Jaime’s shitbucket while Robb’s captive pretty explicitly, but I don’t recall him talking about those biological necessities during his and Brienne’s journey together. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/56 "2013-04-09T14:21:43Z")
The Brienne and Jamie battle was very entertaining. Especially how Jamie started out talking so much smack but then was so totally overmatched. I’m not sure why Jamie is so keen on escaping Brienne. They are going to Kings Landing after all. I guess he doesn’t want to be dragged in front of his father by a giant woman. > [@DrDeth](#): > > She is one of the few people in this world with brains- the list is very short. Most Royalty in this world have room temperature IQ’s- and Winter is Coming. Margaery, Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger are really the only ones who are shown to have any intellect. The rest are pretty dumb. But I suspect that if you can wield a sword, you don’t need to be particularly bright in Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/57 "2013-04-09T15:16:01Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Margaery, Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger are really the only ones who are shown to have any intellect. The rest are pretty dumb. But I suspect that if you can wield a sword, you don’t need to be particularly bright in Westeros. I was going to disagree with you but I couldn’t come up with any counterexamples. Not so much in book-smarts (although only Sam or some maesters would come close to Tyrion in that area), but those four are on their own plane in terms of policital strategy and manipulation. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/58 "2013-04-09T15:34:39Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’m not sure why Jamie is so keen on escaping Brienne. They are going to Kings Landing after all. I guess he doesn’t want to be dragged in front of his father by a giant woman. Or dragged back as a prisoner at all? Plus if he can get back on his own, the Lannisters would still be able to hold Sansa as a hostage. However, at the very least, he should not be so openly antagonistic. It’s been shown that it doesn’t take much to win over Brienne, as desperate as she is to win approval. It’d be a lot more in line with Jaime’s chameleonesque charm to have him “seduce” Brienne with false praise and feigned acceptance as an equal on the battlefield than have him be a wisecracker. Plus, it’d be less conspicuous to not have him in shackles. A 6’4 lady knight attracts enough attention as it is. > [@](#): > > Margaery, Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger are really the only ones who are shown to have any intellect. The rest are pretty dumb. But I suspect that if you can wield a sword, you don’t need to be particularly bright in Westeros. To varying degrees. They’re certainly not equal. I’ve not been terribly impressed by Varys. He seems to be just sneaky enough to get by. Littlefinger is a touch smarter - or at least proactive but for all his wealth he too seems to have his plate full in simply getting through various power transfers while maintaining their status quo. I think Marge is the cleverest one out of the group and gives you a glimpse into what Cersei might have been 17 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/59 "2013-04-09T15:47:14Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The Brienne and Jamie battle was very entertaining. Especially how Jamie started out talking so much smack but then was so totally overmatched. I liked how Jamie was breathing heavily after a few swings and ready to collapse after a minute or two. The guy has been basically tied to a pole for over a year, that does take a huge toll on your body. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093/60 "2013-04-09T17:18:44Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I liked how Jamie was breathing heavily after a few swings and ready to collapse after a minute or two. The guy has been basically tied to a pole for over a year, that does take a huge toll on your body. I liked that as well. I also liked that the scene didn’t go the way I thought it would with Jamie jumping off the bridge into the water. I’m sure even weak as he was he’d still have an easier time swimming than Brienne would with all her armor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-02-dark-wings-dark-words-4-7-13-no-book-spoilers/655093.md?page=4)