# Game of Thrones 3.04 "And Now His Watch is Ended" 4/21/13 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340 "2013-04-21T22:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/201 "2013-04-25T00:23:19Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > So here’s what I don’t understand: Stark forces are outside the castle, preparing to lay siege. Theon sees his situation is hopeless, and gathers the men for a suicidal charge. They humor him for a moment, then bonk him on the head and put a bag on him. > > So they’ve sold him out to the Starks, right? In exchange for a free pass to go home. Makes sense. > > Only in the next scene, Winterfell is burning, and everybody’s dead except the boys and their attendants. They wander around and find the Meister, dying, and he tells them to flee. > > So where are the Stark forces? > > Did they disappear? Where did they go? Shouldn’t they have repossessed Winterfell? This is speculation of course but I think they’re trying to get cute with ambiguity because the Bolton bastard burned down Winterfell and they’re not revealing that betrayal to us yet. It makes sense - why would the Bolton army have wandered off instead of trying to put out the fires and such? It seems like it’d be hard for 20 Iron Islanders to burn the whole village down when 500 men are surround them and could attack at any moment, which you’d think they would when they started to see the smoke. They may have killed the rest of the Iron Islanders or they might’ve just taken Theon and let them go. It doesn’t really matter I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/202 "2013-04-25T16:51:22Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > I got the impression, somehow, that the Starks and the North in general were kind of there because of or for the defense against the threats from further north, the White Walkers. I can’t recall any particular bit of conversation or history that indicates this, though. Anyone else get that impression? They certainly seem to be the only ones south of The Wall that take any of that seriously. -Their territory extends to the wall -They have some knowledge of what lies beyond (recognizing a direwolf when they see it, knowing that there used to be white walkers, etc..) -They’re a very ancient house : Jon mentions in episode 2 or 3 (IIRC) that he has as much rights to the land as the wildlings, because he has the blood of the first men, like them, meaning that the family has been there essentially forever. -Their motto, “Winter is coming” is quite evocative -They still venerate the old gods. -When Jon leaves to serve on the wall, Nedd mentions that there has always been Starks serving there (including, at this time, his own brother). So, yes, the Starks seem to be the only ones in Westeros taking the Night Watch and what happens beyond the wall seriously. Of course, currently, they have other pressing concerns. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/203 "2013-04-25T16:56:08Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Also, I don’t really rank the storylines because on paper, all the storylines are more or less interesting. It’s the actors that really make one storyline sparkle. . True that. That’s the reason why I’m mostly uninterested in Dany’s story. I find the actress a bit dull and none of her companions or opponents are particularly interesting characters (and besides they all tend to be short lived). ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/204 "2013-04-25T17:00:23Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > -Their motto, “Winter is coming” is quite evocative Which begs the question, what is their motto when it is actually winter or when summer is coming? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/205 "2013-04-25T17:05:58Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Which begs the question, what is their motto when it is actually winter or when summer is coming? I don’t know whether this is a joke, but the Stark motto is at least partly metaphorical. They say “winter is coming” regardless of the season because there’s always winter in the future and “winter” can stand for hardships other than the actual weather. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/206 "2013-04-25T17:25:22Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This is speculation of course but I think they’re trying to get cute with ambiguity because the Bolton bastard burned down Winterfell and they’re not revealing that betrayal to us yet. It makes sense - why would the Bolton army have wandered off instead of trying to put out the fires and such? It seems like it’d be hard for 20 Iron Islanders to burn the whole village down when 500 men are surround them and could attack at any moment, which you’d think they would when they started to see the smoke. > > They may have killed the rest of the Iron Islanders or they might’ve just taken Theon and let them go. It doesn’t really matter I suppose. My biggest beef is the use of the “previously on” montage to explain plot points rather than as a reminder. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/207 "2013-04-25T17:26:23Z")
Yeah, I don’t like that section. I remember the show, reminding me that something happened a few episodes ago just makes me know to expect a scene about it. Blah. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/208 "2013-04-25T17:34:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t know whether this is a joke, but the Stark motto is at least partly metaphorical. They say “winter is coming” regardless of the season because there’s always winter in the future and “winter” can stand for hardships other than the actual weather. I do get that it is metaphorical, but it sijply doesn’t sound too ominous or threatening when it is already winter. “Winter is coming!” “What the hell, winter is already here.” “It’s not literal, it just means that the Stark House must always be prepared for the future.” “Well, m’Lord, no disrespect, but we are freeing our asses off now.” “Well, yes, of course, winter is here, but winter is always coming…af-…after…” “uh-huh…” “Um, after it ends and then…” “Go on…” “You know there is summer again and then another winter!” “Thank you, King of the Obvious.” “OK, behead this guy.” ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/209 "2013-04-25T17:36:14Z")
For what it’s worth, when we watch the show on HBOGo, there is no “previously” section. Which is just how I like it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/210 "2013-04-25T17:37:47Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I do get that it is metaphorical, but it sijply doesn’t sound too ominous or threatening when it is already winter. > > “Winter is coming!” > […] > > “You know there is summer again and then another winter!” > > “Thank you, King of the Obvious.” > > “OK, behead this guy.” Doesn’t make sense. Starks don’t have people beheaded. They’re the good guys, so they do it themselves. 😉 (_) (_)Except when the traitor is Mom. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/211 "2013-04-25T19:56:34Z")
> [@Just\_Ed](#): > > Yep, and so did the honorable Ned Stark. And that was because the Targaryens at that point were no longer perceived to be honorable and proper themselves. The rebellion was seen as better for the realm than the continuing rule of insanity. I don’t think doing what’s best for the realm usually coincides with the honorable thing. I don’t think Stannis even thought “I’m fighting my King because it’s for the good of the realm.” He chose family over duty. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/212 "2013-04-27T08:12:06Z")
ETA: sorry if we already talked about all this.. I didn’t realize I hadn’t read the whole thread before posting. > [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Can someone explain the political danger Littlefinger poses with regard to Sansa? Something about how if Robb dies, then she’s the key to the North. How? She’s got two brothers who would inherit before her. Has word gotten back to King’s Landing that the Stark boys are “dead”? Do the southerners think the northmen would accept Littlefinger as their lord just because he married into the family? They’re already in a civil war. I think they assume that the North would respect Sansa as the last living true-born Stark. If Robb dies then the rebellion will fall apart and then when the north is essentially occupied by the south, Little Finger being in charge will cause them to bristle less as he’s wedded to a Stark. I called the way the “slave army for dragon” thing would play out a couple of weeks ago. I think the slave trader was a bit naive not seeing or at least prepping for the possibility that Dany would pull something. If Dany had seemed unconcerned with the plight of the slaves earlier, I’d have been more convinced that he was more convinced that he was dealing with her on a business level only and wouldn’t necessarily suspect anything. She’s sacked that city and is probably pretty stocked with supplies for now and presumably the non-army slaves she freed (remember she told them to free any slaves they came across in the city) will became camp followers and take care of the non-killing things that need taking care of. I was really bummed when the captain of the watch was killed. I loved that guy. I was confused as to why the Watch was still hanging out at the crazy daughter marry-er’s place. They said they had wounded that needed to heal first, but I don’t really remember seeing that many wounded in their march, let along ones that couldn’t move under their own power. Also.. how is Gilly hiding the baby? Presumably the old man knew she was pregnant and her sisters helped her give birth. Wasn’t the last time they were there a girl gave birth and he took it out into the woods immediately? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/213 "2013-04-27T12:10:41Z")
let’s not kid ourselves; LF’s interest in Sansa is only in order to help him get closer to her mother. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/214 "2013-04-27T13:09:11Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > -Their territory extends to the wall > > -They have some knowledge of what lies beyond (recognizing a direwolf when they see it, knowing that there used to be white walkers, etc..) > > -They’re a very ancient house : Jon mentions in episode 2 or 3 (IIRC) that he has as much rights to the land as the wildlings, because he has the blood of the first men, like them, meaning that the family has been there essentially forever. > > -Their motto, “Winter is coming” is quite evocative > > -They still venerate the old gods. > > -When Jon leaves to serve on the wall, Nedd mentions that there has always been Starks serving there (including, at this time, his own brother). > > So, yes, the Starks seem to be the only ones in Westeros taking the Night Watch and what happens beyond the wall seriously. Of course, currently, they have other pressing concerns. Ned also says in the first episode that he has been ‘guarding the north’ for Robert Baratheon. Part of that is beheading those who run from their duty on the Wall. Seems like having criminals serve in the Night’s Watch wouldn’t work quite so well if there weren’t houses like Stark acting as prison wardens for them. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > let’s not kid ourselves; LF’s interest in Sansa is only in order to help him get closer to her mother. It’s true that Littlefinger has a thing for Cat, but I doubt he’d go to all this trouble just for her. That probably does play a major role in his machinations, but even his desire for Cat is coupled with an ulterior motive. She’s a lady. If he married her, he’d rise up the social ladder. It seems like everything he does is designed to provide him upward mobility. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/215 "2013-04-27T15:17:49Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I was confused as to why the Watch was still hanging out at the crazy daughter marry-er’s place. They said they had wounded that needed to heal first, but I don’t really remember seeing that many wounded in their march, let along ones that couldn’t move under their own power. Also.. how is Gilly hiding the baby? Presumably the old man knew she was pregnant and her sisters helped her give birth. Wasn’t the last time they were there a girl gave birth and he took it out into the woods immediately? I think we just assume that some of the Watch were injured and that we didn’t explicitly see it on screen… certainly I don’t think we’re supposed to assume that Mormont was lying and there was some other motivation. I think that if things were normal in incest-land, Craster would have taken the boy baby that night and left it in the forest for the white walkers. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/216 "2013-04-27T16:03:24Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Also.. how is Gilly hiding the baby? Presumably the old man knew she was pregnant and her sisters helped her give birth. Wasn’t the last time they were there a girl gave birth and he took it out into the woods immediately? We heard no evidence of a recent childbirth on their first visit. The sacrifice might not happen immediately. The White Walkers might visit on a schedule, like when the moon is full. Or maybe they wait until the baby fattens up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/217 "2013-04-27T17:29:42Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > let’s not kid ourselves; LF’s interest in Sansa is only in order to help him get closer to her mother. Cat is not exactly much of a looker anymore, Sansa on the other hand. Littlefinger was in love with Cat when they were young, i think her young daughter would make just as good a focus for his obsession than her. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/218 "2013-04-27T18:56:08Z")
Does anyone think Littlefinger wants more than just to be Lord of some place? He’s the Rodney Dangerfield of Westeros. Maybe he just wants his own little realm, a place where he can relax, start a dynasty. ?? ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/219 "2013-04-27T20:17:19Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I called the way the “slave army for dragon” thing would play out a couple of weeks ago. I think the slave trader was a bit naive not seeing or at least prepping for the possibility that Dany would pull something. If Dany had seemed unconcerned with the plight of the slaves earlier, I’d have been more convinced that he was more convinced that he was dealing with her on a business level only and wouldn’t necessarily suspect anything. The way I see it is that he’s always been of the opinion that no one could ever afford half the army of the Unsullied, much less the entire group. He was planning to sell her a couple hundred of the 8,000, which likely isn’t far off from his usual practice. When the dragon got brought into the deal, his eyes suddenly got bigger than his stomach. He threw caution to the wind because, hey, he’ll have a fucking DRAGON! If there’s one thing that will mean “power” for him, it’s that. So he wasn’t thinking clearly, he was just focused on being the owner of one of the three dragons currently in existence. I don’t think it occurred to him that it wouldn’t take instruction or heed his command. By that time, it was too late. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/220 "2013-04-28T00:32:59Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Cat is not exactly much of a looker anymore, Sansa on the other hand. Littlefinger was in love with Cat when they were young, i think her young daughter would make just as good a focus for his obsession than her. > [@AuntiePam](#): > > Does anyone think Littlefinger wants more than just to be Lord of some place? He’s the Rodney Dangerfield of Westeros. Maybe he just wants his own little realm, a place where he can relax, start a dynasty. ?? Well, yeah, to start a \*lasting \*dynasty, and one with real power/titles/lands, he’d need a wife of _child-bearing age_, which seems like a likely reason for his shift of focus from Kat to Sansa. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340.md?page=12)