# Game of Thrones 3.04 "And Now His Watch is Ended" 4/21/13 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340 "2013-04-21T22:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/221 "2013-04-29T02:38:17Z")
Is there a thread for tonight’s episode? (4/28 _Kissed by Fire_) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/222 "2013-04-29T02:50:39Z")
[Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=689488). Sorry, I’ve barely been at the computer this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/223 "2013-04-29T17:47:08Z")
the way it’s presented in the show, i think the expectation is that Dany would not be able to control the army directly, her being unable to speak the language. they made it a big deal that she did speak it, signifying her hole card which she then used to turn on the slave traders. it doesn’t make more sense than what is posited here, but it seems to be the direction the director has chosen. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/224 "2013-04-29T18:22:28Z")
I know that the show’s producers had the Dothraki language invented from scratch. So is the language that Dany is using with the slaves another language, or are they just using Dothraki? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/225 "2013-04-29T18:35:58Z")
Well, according to what happened in the last week’s episode, she was talking to the Unsullied in Old Valyrian. ---
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/226 "2013-04-29T18:38:52Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Cat is not exactly much of a looker anymore, … i respectively disagree ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/227 "2013-04-29T18:54:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, according to what happened in the last week’s episode, she was talking to the Unsullied in Old Valyrian. That’s what I’m asking; did the producers actually have Old Valyrian developed as a separate language? Because that’s a lot of work, both to develop the language and for the actors to memorize the lines. ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/228 "2013-04-29T19:17:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That’s what I’m asking; did the producers actually have Old Valyrian developed as a separate language? Because that’s a lot of work, both to develop the language and for the actors to memorize the lines. They didn’t just develop Valyrian, they developed two different dialects of it: the High Valyrian that Daenerys speaks and the Astapori Valyrian that the slavers speak. You can read more about it at [dothraki.com](http://dothraki.com), home page of the guy who creates the languages for the show. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/229 "2013-04-29T20:59:12Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Does anyone think Littlefinger wants more than just to be Lord of some place? He’s the Rodney Dangerfield of Westeros. Maybe he just wants his own little realm, a place where he can relax, start a dynasty. ?? He explicitely said during first season (in this ludicrous sexposition scene) that he wanted “everything” (ETA :and in the last episode, he also said that when he gets something he wants, he immediately wants something else or more of it. In this case refering to a ship and a fleet, IIRC) He also professed his eternal love for Catelyn in this same scene. Apparently, he’s still a virgin (despite running a whorehouse) for this reason. (just rewatched this episode yesterday) ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/230 "2013-04-29T21:33:00Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > He also professed his eternal love for Catelyn in this same scene. Apparently, he’s still a virgin (despite running a whorehouse) for this reason. Littlefinger is a virgin? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/231 "2013-04-30T00:30:27Z")
He has claimed – at least by implication – to have deflowered both Catelyn and Lysa. So if you asked him, he isn’t a virgin. But with him, you never know what to believe. It’s entirely possible that the Tully sisters are the _only_ women he has never slept with. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/232 "2013-04-30T01:28:45Z")
> [@bryanmaguire](#): > > i respectively disagree Yes, but do you _respectfully_ disagree? ---
**Author:** ![sidhechaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sidhechaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sidhechaos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/233 "2013-05-01T06:28:15Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Started a bit slow, but goddamn did it pick up in the last half! Dany is fucking awesome. I don’t recall if we can post images here or if it has to be links so Ill play it safe with a link. I capped this and added text with plan to revise later to icon or banner size. [http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/chorus\_of\_chaos/322428/50560/50560\_900.jpg](http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/chorus_of_chaos/322428/50560/50560_900.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![sidhechaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sidhechaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sidhechaos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/234 "2013-05-01T06:43:42Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I don’t think this is a minor nit at all and I agree that the way it went down was completely implausible. > > First, it seems unlikely that only one man was in charge of a significant part of the productive output of one city, their soldier slave trade. Although possible. So it’s harder to pin it down to the stupidity of one individual - presumably he’d have to okay it with some sort of council. But even if not. > > The guy is arrogant, but you have to be an idiot to put yourself in the situation that he was in. He didn’t ask for a crash course in dragon training, he didn’t inquire how to take care of the dragon or how to control it or anything like that. The plan was just to be handed this wild, powerful creature that no one had known for hundreds of years and just figure out how to deal with it. It’d be hard enough for someone who’d never seen children to be handed a crying child and figure out what he needed to do - let alone a fire breathing, non-human monster. There is simply no way there wouldn’t have been an acclimatization and familiarization period where he was satisfied that he could control the dragons before he handed over the slave army. > > Furthermore, Dany’s ploy was pretty obvious. If you hand over your entire army - an army that you know will unflinchingly follow the will of their new master - you are completely at their whims. It’s hard to believe that someone wouldn’t realize that it would be an obvious ploy to immediately use that entire army in the way that she did. At most, you’d expect the guy to tell you that he’d give you half his army of unsullen for a dragon, otherwise he not only has no way to guarantee his safety and profiting from the deal, he’d be counting on the trust and mercy of someone in that crazy world where everyone is a dick. Especially after Dany had Missandei - they were shocked that Dany spoke Valyrian, but it wasn’t even necessary. She could’ve just asked her new slave what the master had actually being saying and learned about it that way. > > And then let’s examine the economics of the situation. Yes, dragons are the most unique things in that world, possibly priceless. But how does it generate a profit? The unsullen army represents entire generations worth of the work and output of an entire city. Their main(?) form of trade, their main product. They will not have another generation ready to be sold again for at least a dozen years. How do they keep their economy going in the meantime? By finding someone fabulously rich and selling them the dragons? Seems like there might only be a handful of of potential buyers in the whole world. By using the dragon themselves to destroy their enemies? It seems like the city and the master were businessmen and traders foremost, not conquerors or brigands. > > So while the scene was great and very satisfying, I wish they’d have gone further to make it more logical, to let us see what the other end thought they were getting out of the deal, and at least some acknowledgement and preparations for the obvious potential betrayal. simple, the guy was a misogynystic sadist douchenozzle who had been raised to believe he was such a special snowflake of godly awesomess he could be as much of a misogynistic psycho-sociopathic prick as he wanted to. No one had ever stood up to him, it was..to quote the guy in “Princess Bride” _INCONCEIVABLE_. And as always occurs with such nasty vermin, something, usually the last thing they ever expect, comes along and knocks them into the dirt,ashes, whatever and they get what the deserve ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/235 "2013-05-01T10:04:52Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Littlefinger is a virgin? By implication, in the same sexposition scene I mentioned above (that’s why I assumed he was), but since according to **Acsenray** he said the contrary elsewhere, also by implication, who knows? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/236 "2013-05-01T10:09:21Z")
> [@sidhechaos](#): > > And as always occurs with such nasty vermin, something, usually the last thing they ever expect, comes along and knocks them into the dirt,ashes, whatever and they get what the deserve I’ve a hard time believing that someone like that would raise to such a high level. Joffrey fits perfectly your description, for instance, but he was born to be a king, and he’s surrounded by people who prevent his idiocy from bitting him in the ass. I think the unsullied exchange really stretches credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/237 "2013-05-01T12:04:35Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I’ve a hard time believing that someone like that would raise to such a high level. Joffrey fits perfectly your description, for instance, but he was born to be a king, and he’s surrounded by people who prevent his idiocy from bitting him in the ass. > I think the unsullied exchange really stretches credibility. Nitpick: I think you mean “credulity.” And in any case, I think the best explanation is that people who buy slave soldiers aren’t likely to turn against their source of such. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/238 "2013-05-01T12:16:50Z")
“Credibility” seems like the right word. **Claireobscure** is saying the situation is almost unbelievable. It’s nearly “un-credible.” It stretches credibility. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/239 "2013-05-01T12:28:35Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > “un-credible.” when I say things like this it pisses my wife off something fierce - which is probably why I can’t stop doing it. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/240 "2013-05-01T12:36:11Z")
My recollection of that “I’m a virgin” scene is pretty vague and distant, but I seem to recall the context being figurative. Like he’d gone so long since he bedded a woman he felt something for that he felt like a virgin again. Regarding credulity and credibility, the way I generally understand the two is that credibility refers to the reliability of testimony regarding real things, like an expert witness in a trial. By contrast, credulity refers to plausibility of made-up things, like fictional books and tv shows. This is only my understanding, though, and could easily be mistaken. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340.md?page=13)