# Game of Thrones 3.04 "And Now His Watch is Ended" 4/21/13 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340 "2013-04-21T22:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/81 "2013-04-22T20:21:36Z")
> [@chinchalinchin](#): > > [deleted quotation of open spoilers. Again, this is the thread for people who have not read the books or wish to pretend that they do not exist. Please keep discussion of the books out of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![chinchalinchin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@chinchalinchin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chinchalinchin)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/82 "2013-04-22T20:23:39Z")
Yeah, sorry. I’m trying to figure out how to delete my post. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/83 "2013-04-22T20:27:49Z")
[Here are the 3x04 GoT scenes for reference.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVSISL4wSX8&list=PLXMWkUUXTwE1m6tBd-aAF8jUe3LD9vCt_) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/84 "2013-04-22T20:28:37Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Again, this is the thread for people who have not read the books or wish to pretend that they do not exist. Please keep discussion of the books out of the thread. It would also be helpful if people avoided quoting them. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/85 "2013-04-22T20:40:03Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > What the hell is Tywin going to do to fix Joffery? Put him over his knee? He is king for god’s sake. All he can do is make sure the guy cannot do more real harm than he has already and he accomplished that by being/having Tyrion act as Hand. If you were a Lannister soldier, and you had conflicting orders from Tywin and Joffrey, which orders would you follow? I don’t think there is a single person in the 7 Kingdoms who doesn’t know that Tywin is actually calling the shots. It helps that Joffrey seems more interested in crossbows and fashion than in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/86 "2013-04-22T20:48:41Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > If you were a Lannister soldier, and you had conflicting orders from Tywin and Joffrey, which orders would you follow? I don’t think there is a single person in the 7 Kingdoms who doesn’t know that Tywin is actually calling the shots. It helps that Joffrey seems more interested in crossbows and fashion than in politics. I’ll quibble with this. There’s no one of \*importance \*that doesn’t know Tywin is actually calling the shots, but when it comes down to the dirty, filthy masses, it’s Joffrey who is their king. They all hate him, and they may all want to riot and stick his head on a pike - but they want Joffrey’s up there, not Tywin’s. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/87 "2013-04-22T21:26:13Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > When Dany offered the unsullied their freedom, I’m sure she feels better about herself, but could they meaningfully make a decision about that? These men have been so brainwashed, so rigidly indoctrinated, that it seems like they could not make a meaningful decision like choosing or failing to choose freedom. They simply aren’t equipped to even understand what they were being offered… That’s what I thought. Emancipation means nothing to the Unsullied; they can’t even bring themselves to use the first person when they speak. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Margaery is probably being politically calculating certainly, but you can’t rule out good intentions by the fact that Loras is gay. Sansa is a prisoner who could be subject to torture or death at the whim of Joffrey. She’s in an awful situation. Marrying Loras would give her protection and a way out… Loras would be really unhappy with the match, but he’d just end up taking Sansa to Highgarden and then ignoring her while she get’s to live like a noblewoman’s life. It’d sure be fun to watch Margaery try and explain to her what to expect on the wedding night. > [@DigitalC](#): > > That’s just what they are called, i imagine it refers to having been castrated at a young age… It’s not just the castration. They’re so thoughly brainwashed they have individualality at all. They have no wants or desires other than to obey their masters. It’s not just that they’re physically incapable of raping, they’re also mentally incapable of even wanting to rape and pillage. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > …Edit: Loras isn’t part of Joffrey’s kingsguard. He was part of Renly’s, but that’s not recognized as a legitimate king/kingsguard. I can’t remember if he was part of Robert’s, but it would seem that if he was, then the kingsguard aren’t all necessary transferred to the new king. He was just a knight before he joined Renly’s Rainbow Guard; he was considered quite the eligable bachelor because of his looks & his pedigree. > [@Stoid](#): > > …By the way, Martin is a kinky bastard…whole lotta incest going on… In addition to what they are portraying in the series, I read that Dany was going to be her brothers wife until he decided Khal was a better idea, and that that is normal in some parts of the GOT world… It was normal for Ancient Egyptian royalty in our world, and that’s were Martin got his inspiration. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/88 "2013-04-22T21:26:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Also, remember how the slavemaster said that he would buy any slaves she took on her campaign. As far as he was concerned, he was safe because he was part of a system - he bought slaves, trained them into soldiers, and the soldiers went out and sold him more slaves in turn. What general would destroy a source of income? > > He just didn’t count on the fact that Dany doesn’t care about systems. She’s the mother or dragons, and dragons are agents of change. Yeah, I think this was the idea. The slaver (and I think given the many different types of slaves, he is one businessman of many, not a singular power in Astapor) couldn’t think outside the box. He’s like a British soldier standing in line with his fellows in a smart red uniform, waiting for the colonists to come out and have a battle. From an outside point of view, it’s patently stupid, but if it’s The Way Things Are in your world, it wouldn’t occur to you to question it. > [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > If you were a Lannister soldier, and you had conflicting orders from Tywin and Joffrey, which orders would you follow? I don’t think there is a single person in the 7 Kingdoms who doesn’t know that Tywin is actually calling the shots. It helps that Joffrey seems more interested in crossbows and fashion than in politics. I think Varys’s puzzle from season 2 needs an additional person. “There’s a king, a rich man, a priest, and a cold-ass motherfucker who’s smart, strong, and utterly confident in his authority.” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/89 "2013-04-22T22:05:06Z")
I could watch a whole hour of Tywin writing letters while eviscerating his children. I could watch a whole hour of Varys and Olenna Tyrell bandying words. I could watch a whole hour of Joffrey getting murderboners while describing Targaryen history to Margaery. And those weren’t even the cool parts of the episode. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/90 "2013-04-22T22:12:18Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I could watch a whole hour of Tywin writing letters while eviscerating his children. Oh man, I hope Jaime finally stumbles in King’s Landing, bleeding from his stump, and Tywin’s reaction is “Hang on, I need to finish this trade negotiation with some tiny castle near Dorn. By the way, I heard you were defeated by a woman.” ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/91 "2013-04-22T22:23:16Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > “Never knew Bannon could smell so good.” I just realized that he might have smelled good because they all were hungry… ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/92 "2013-04-22T22:27:18Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I have a question, probably a pointless nit. Shouldn’t Jamie have bled out when they cut off his hand, absent some kind of compression (can’t remember the term for wrapping something around a limb to prevent bleeding out offhand)? I guess his captors may have done so, don’t remember a scene of them doing it, or any mention of them. Frankly, it’s hard to believe they would bother, clearly, they hate Jamie. Actually, I assume they cauterized it with fire. More effective than a tourniquet, and WAY more painful. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/93 "2013-04-22T22:37:04Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Actually, I assume they cauterized it with fire. More effective than a tourniquet, and WAY more painful. Also smells more delicious for any hungry Nights Watch around. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/94 "2013-04-22T22:41:08Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I > > Even moreso because we just saw her essentially renege on a deal like 30 seconds before that. Here, take this dragon as payment, and now go die in a fire. Her word doesn’t seem particularly reliable. \ Well-put, and now I have a mess to clean up. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/95 "2013-04-22T22:45:07Z")
“Murderboners.” Now _that’s_ a word! ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/96 "2013-04-22T23:44:52Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > And I agree, Slaver Guy clearly had a bad case of Plot-Related Idiocy in giving his whole army to Daenerys in return for a magic bean … er, dragon. Those closer to Daenerys suspected nothing about her plan, how would the slave master do? We knew because we have been seen the other side of the coin, the slave master knew nothing about her compassion, or her dislike of slavers. If Astapor had been doing business for centuries without a hitch, they thought it was just business as usual. And hell yes, a Dragon was worth more than 8 K unsullied, a grown dragon would toast them with just one breath. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/97 "2013-04-22T23:50:23Z")
Overall, I really enjoyed it; this is geeky stuff. But you can’t have it both ways: if the dragon is that powerful, then slaver-schmo should’ve approached the exchange far less haughtily - and been more suspicious of Dany’s motives if she was willing to give it up in a poor deal. Meh - I am quibbling. There are legit ways to talk it through, as illustrated by some posts in this thread. It just jarred me a bit at the time… ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/98 "2013-04-23T00:04:03Z")
Option A: “We should train these slaves from birth to only obey their master - whoever that happens to be at the time. We’ll sell them and be rich!” Option B: “We should train these slaves from birth to only obey their master _ **and us** _. We’ll sell them, be rich, and not be afraid of them ever being used against us.” To me, Option B is obviously the correct way to go, but I suppose that’s why I never made it big in the slave trade. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/99 "2013-04-23T00:05:04Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Overall, I really enjoyed it; this is geeky stuff. But you can’t have it both ways: if the dragon is that powerful, then slaver-schmo should’ve approached the exchange far less haughtily - and been more suspicious of Dany’s motives if she was willing to give it up in a poor deal. > > Meh - I am quibbling. There are legit ways to talk it through, as illustrated by some posts in this thread. It just jarred me a bit at the time… Yeah, I’m a huge huge fan of both book and show, and I agree that I would have been happier with some bit of dialog or something thrown in to indicate that there was normally some safeguard in place to prevent anyone with a lot of gold from coming in, buying all the unsullied, and then instantly having them sack Astapor… it’s borderline believable that nasty slaver’s hubris led him to believe that this particular transaction could be transacted in an unusual way, one which left it vulnerable to this very obvious scheme; but totally unbelievable that a massively gaping flaw in the business model existed for that long without some enemy of Astapor taking advantage of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/100 "2013-04-23T00:13:32Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > it’s borderline believable that nasty slaver’s hubris led him to believe that this particular transaction could be transacted in an unusual way, one which left it vulnerable to this very obvious scheme; but totally unbelievable that a massively gaping flaw in the business model existed for that long without some enemy of Astapor taking advantage of it. Had anyone before bought ALL slaves at once. Maybe he was blinded by greed, the same way that some people are still swindled by Nigerian ministers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340.md?page=6)