# Game of Thrones 3.04 "And Now His Watch is Ended" 4/21/13 No Book Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340 "2013-04-21T22:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/101 "2013-04-23T00:28:43Z")
They did not think someone buying slaves would have a beef against slavers. You kill the slavers then all of the sudden all those slaves you capture with your nifty new army are now worthless. They saw themselves as an integral part of the cycle for anyone buying an army. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/102 "2013-04-23T00:37:09Z")
Her boat apparently could only buy like 100 slaves? 200? So to buy them all you’d need like 80 boats? I think it’s unlikely anyone has ever come in with an offer to buy enough to kill the rest that are under the masters’ command. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/103 "2013-04-23T00:41:51Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > To me, Option B is obviously the correct way to go, but I suppose that’s why I never made it big in the slave trade. Well, like the piano when you were 11, you just never applied yourself. Now you know, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/104 "2013-04-23T00:41:53Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I would have been happier with some bit of dialog or something thrown in to indicate that there was normally some safeguard in place to prevent anyone with a lot of gold from coming in, buying all the unsullied, and then instantly having them sack Astapor… I view it liking walking into a gun store, buying a gun and ammo, then killing the store owner with your new purchases. ---
**Author:** ![Orr\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ee59a6/32.png) [@Orr\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orr_G)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/105 "2013-04-23T01:15:01Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I view it liking walking into a gun store, buying a gun and ammo, then killing the store owner with your new purchases. “You can’t do that.” “Wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/106 "2013-04-23T01:43:27Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Margaery is probably being politically calculating certainly, but you can’t rule out good intentions by the fact that Loras is gay. Sansa is a prisoner who could be subject to torture or death at the whim of Joffrey. She’s in an awful situation. Marrying Loras would give her protection and a way out. He may even be good to her as a husband aside from sex, and perhaps (I don’t know how this world works as far as this goes) she could have a hidden real love on the side. > > “Marry my kind, gay brother and get out of being a hostage under constant threat of torture and death” certainly seems like a pretty good tradeoff to me. It’s not her ideal life, but holy shit does her life suck now. It would be an escape. Plenty friendly I’d say. Also remember last episode when Margaery was with Joffrey explaining why she did not consummate her marriage with Renly , Joffrey said Renly was a deviant and he might make that punishable by death. Margaery seamed to give an “oh shit I may just have killed my brother” look, so maybe they are also trying to give a good cover story for Loras by marrying Sansa, amongst other things. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/107 "2013-04-23T02:14:46Z")
> [@Orr\_G](#): > > “You can’t do that.” > > “Wrong.” With a dry, cool wit like that I could be an action hero. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/108 "2013-04-23T02:18:39Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > They did not think someone buying slaves would have a beef against slavers. You kill the slavers then all of the sudden all those slaves you capture with your nifty new army are now worthless. They saw themselves as an integral part of the cycle for anyone buying an army. You don’t have to hate slavers to do it, though. We’re talking about essentially trading two of the most valuable things in the world for each other - an entire small army and one of three dragons that have existed for hundreds of years. The value involved is staggering - the generational economic output of a city for something priceless. Imagine leaving the deal with both - it’s so tempting that it would override the value of any continued economic relationship. Selling thousands of untrained captured/slaves back to Astapor wouldn’t come close to the value of having both parts of the deal. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/109 "2013-04-23T02:33:25Z")
Maybe they figured “she’ll have an army but we’ll have a dragon”. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/110 "2013-04-23T02:38:36Z")
It’s funny how the event that is the title of this episode gets hardly a passing mention. I found the goings-on in the North fun and scary last season. This season seems only slightly less disjointed than Theon’s doings. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/111 "2013-04-23T02:42:53Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Option A: > “We should train these slaves from birth to only obey their master - whoever that happens to be at the time. We’ll sell them and be rich!” > > Option B: > “We should train these slaves from birth to only obey their master _ **and us** _. We’ll sell them, be rich, and not be afraid of them ever being used against us.” > > To me, Option B is obviously the correct way to go, but I suppose that’s why I never made it big in the slave trade. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > …but totally unbelievable that a massively gaping flaw in the business model existed for that long without some enemy of Astapor taking advantage of it. Consider, though: Who in their right mind would buy an army of super soldiers that would also take orders from the guys who sold them? They’d be useless. One command and poof, they refuse to fight just as you are about to engage the enemy. Or they murder you in your sleep. Or they capture your city and sell all of you back to the slavers. Astapor would be out of the army-selling business permanently after pulling that trick once. Of course, I never made it big in the slave trade, either. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/112 "2013-04-23T02:51:41Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > It’s funny how the event that is the title of this episode gets hardly a passing mention. I found the goings-on in the North fun and scary last season. This season seems only slightly less disjointed than Theon’s doings. The North storyline has always bored the crap out of me, although I have to admit it was a pleasant change this episode, if only because at least it’s something new, something happened. It’s ironic that the wildling army is organized and cohesive under Mance Rayder, but the Night’s Watch is now wild and out of control. I guess there are some downsides to creating an army of criminals. I’m worried we’ll see more of Sam and Gilly and I will be forced to slam my head against the wall for it taking up valuable time that could be spent on interesting things. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/113 "2013-04-23T03:25:01Z")
I think there would still be a market for slaves with that extra “Thou Shalt Not” programmed into them. Even if such a rule was known to exist, there would still be a market for the slave army. Sure, the Astaporians could have them murder you in your sleep, but that sort of thing gets out and they would, as you say, never sell another army. Therefore, each customer can reasonably conclude that the risk of such a threat is infinitesimal. So long as they don’t attack Astapor, they know they’re safe. Secondly, there’s no reason to suppose that the slaves would have to follow _any_ order from Astapor. They could just be programmed to never attack Astapor itself, or the masters within it. If that were the case customers would not have to fear the slaves turning on them, but would also be aware that siccing the army on the city would be fruitless. I know I’m overthinking this, but I wish that plot point had been fleshed out a little more. ---
**Author:** ![Tixenfleaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@Tixenfleaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tixenfleaz)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/114 "2013-04-23T03:26:44Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Yeah, I’m a huge huge fan of both book and show, and I agree that I would have been happier with some bit of dialog or something thrown in to indicate that there was normally some safeguard in place to prevent anyone with a lot of gold from coming in, buying all the unsullied, and then instantly having them sack Astapor… I noticed that the transaction occurred outside of the walls of Astapor, and after frying the slavemaster, the dragon made it a point to spray the _inside_ of the walls. I just assumed the inside walls were loaded with guards to prevent such a sacking, and nobody reckoned on such a relatively small dragon being much of a threat. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/115 "2013-04-23T03:28:19Z")
It’s plausible that they never programmed them with a secret directive never to attack Astapor because they’ve probably never sold more than 10% of their Unsullied at a time, they’d always have too many remaining forces to defend against the ones they’d sold. But yeah, I mean, their indoctrination is extensive, it would be pretty easy to sneak in “never attack Astapor” into their training. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/116 "2013-04-23T03:33:03Z")
But if that was in the training and it was found out that woudl reduce the alue of ghe unsullied , there big selling point is " they do exactly as you mr guy in need of an army says". When you start to add caveats and hidden rules the unsullied become less valuable to a potential buyer , after all what other hidden rules are there in there? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/117 "2013-04-23T03:39:54Z")
Besides, they are not actually robots. You can’t just tinker with their complete obedience programing a little and make yourself immune. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/118 "2013-04-23T03:41:19Z")
I disagree - if you are completely indoctrinating children from a young age and have total control over their lives, instilling them with “1) Always listen to your master no matter what 2) Except never attack Astapor” is a pretty simple/plausible set of rules. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/119 "2013-04-23T03:48:25Z")
When Theon confessed to killing those two farmboys, and then said that he “burned everything down,” the other guy said, “Not everything” and then showed him the X-frame. So was that a hint that Theon is being held at Winterfell? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340/120 "2013-04-23T03:50:52Z")
Theon would have known if they were going to Winterfell, he lived there for like ten years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-4-21-13-no-book-spoilers/656340.md?page=7)