# Game of Thrones 3.05 "Kissed by Fire" 4/28/13 No spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 29, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979 "2013-04-29T02:37:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/161 "2013-05-01T18:12:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > When Jaqen offered Arya her three kills, he said it was because the Red God (same as the lord of light, right?) demanded that life by paid for with death. Which makes me wonder if something is dying to bring back Lord Beric. Beric is being sacrificed a piece at a time, maybe. Assuming the Red God and the Lord of Light are one and the the same. > [@DigitalC](#): > > He also lost the north to the iron men and his best prisoner to moms stupidity. I thought the Iron Islanders typically raided and made a mess, but then split. Isn’t that why Theon’s sister chastised him for occupying Winterfell? Have they actually held on to anything in their latest offensive? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/162 "2013-05-01T18:17:37Z")
I don’t think Jaqen referred to the Red God, but I don’t recall exactly. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/163 "2013-05-01T18:19:34Z")
He did, but i thought it was because they were about to be burned alive so Arya saving them specifically took their deaths away from the red god. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/164 "2013-05-01T18:22:23Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > When Jaqen offered Arya her three kills, he said it was because the Red God (same as the lord of light, right?) demanded that life by paid for with death. Which makes me wonder if something is dying to bring back Lord Beric. Yes, same god / that’s the very premise of classic game _Planescape: Torment_. You’re immortal, but every death demands some random person die, à la _Button, Button_. I don’t know the answer, but I think it was more Jaqen’s group’s laws rather than the religion as a whole. …although the life of the smoke baby did demand a death. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/165 "2013-05-01T18:41:58Z")
The flaming sword trick required a small blood sacrifice, as well. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/166 "2013-05-01T18:55:17Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I wished they’d had fleshed out Robb’s decision a little more. Robb is one of the few characters who isn’t deeply flawed and, well, a dick. He was an honorable man like his father, but, not quite so rigid as far as that honor goes. So it makes me wonder why he rejected his family’s sound advice. They made an obvious and good case as to why to keep Karstark alive. This episode revolved around Ned Stark indirectly, so was it Ned’s honor-above-all ghost that influenced Robb? Was it ego, when the guy basically dared Robb to execute him? > > After a successful early run, shit is going downhill really fast for Robb. He’s got two factions within his domain quite pissed at him (the Freys and the Karstarks), the loyalty of the Boltons is under question (we’re still not sure what happened to Winterfell). And we’ve had a lot of story time lately in one form or another dedicated to the idea of defecting to the winning side when things are looking grim. Robb seems ripe for a betrayal. Which sucks, I guess, since it’s kind of nice to have a relatively good guy to contrast with everyone else. I wished they’d fleshed it out more too, but not really because Robb is sooooo boooorrrrinnnngggggg. Ugh. After I saw the episode last night, I said, "“Robb is my least favorite character. He isn’t good enough to like for being good, and he isn’t bad enough to like for being bad. He’s just stupid\* and dull.” I’d like to be proven wrong though. Maybe they’ll give him some better stuff soon. \*also, I’m going to say right now, Arya isn’t a real Stark.😛 Every one of them (and Cat) are dumber than a box of rocks. Where she got her good sense from, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/167 "2013-05-02T04:49:47Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > I thought the Iron Islanders typically raided and made a mess, but then split. Isn’t that why Theon’s sister chastised him for occupying Winterfell? Have they actually held on to anything in their latest offensive? Yara Greyjoy and her men are currently occupying Deepwood Motte, which seems to be on the mainland of Westeros, though presumably on the coast near the Iron Islands as opposed to far inland like Winterfell. (Note: I have not read the books, this is TV-only knowledge, though I did Google the name Deepwood Motte to be sure of the spelling.) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/168 "2013-05-02T05:23:06Z")
BTW are we allowed to give book spoilers where the event has already happened in the TV version, if its different or missing, expanded etc? ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/169 "2013-05-02T05:38:38Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > BTW are we allowed to give book spoilers where the event has already happened in the TV version, if its different or missing, expanded etc? No. ANYTHING to do with the book goes in the open spoilers thread. The books do not exist as far as this thread is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/170 "2013-05-02T05:48:18Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > BTW are we allowed to give book spoilers where the event has already happened in the TV version, if its different or missing, expanded etc? I wish you wouldn’t. Even those of us who’ve read at least some of the books would rather discuss the show itself here. There’s a thread for “spoilers” that also includes plenty of “but in the book” discussions. That stuff is still spoilery for those who might decide to read the books later. And sort of dull for the rest of us… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/171 "2013-05-02T10:41:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > They looked older than Bran to me. In any case I think it was not unusual for squires to start very young. naah, a squire would start around 13-14. Younger than that, they’d be a [page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_%28servant%29#The_medieval_page). ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/172 "2013-05-02T14:12:40Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I wished they’d had fleshed out Robb’s decision a little more. Robb is one of the few characters who isn’t deeply flawed and, well, a dick. He was an honorable man like his father, but, not quite so rigid as far as that honor goes. So it makes me wonder why he rejected his family’s sound advice. They made an obvious and good case as to why to keep Karstark alive. This episode revolved around Ned Stark indirectly, so was it Ned’s honor-above-all ghost that influenced Robb? Was it ego, when the guy basically dared Robb to execute him? > > After a successful early run, shit is going downhill really fast for Robb. He’s got two factions within his domain quite pissed at him (the Freys and the Karstarks), the loyalty of the Boltons is under question (we’re still not sure what happened to Winterfell). And we’ve had a lot of story time lately in one form or another dedicated to the idea of defecting to the winning side when things are looking grim. Robb seems ripe for a betrayal. Which sucks, I guess, since it’s kind of nice to have a relatively good guy to contrast with everyone else. Robb is being a Stark. That means he is not a schemer, he does what his honor demands he do and lets the chips fall where they may. That is why they are so good in battle but so poor at politics. Starks do horribly at Kings Landing because they assume other people are like them and are not constantly scheming. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/173 "2013-05-02T14:43:50Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > He did, but i thought it was because they were about to be burned alive so Arya saving them specifically took their deaths away from the red god. Wasn’t Jaqen part of the Brotherhood Without Banners too? I seem to remember Arya accusing him of being part of it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/174 "2013-05-02T15:04:43Z")
Not that i remember, he was a prisoner going to the wall then he joined Tywins forces at harrenhal then disappeared to parts unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/175 "2013-05-02T15:20:20Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Robb is being a Stark. That means he is not a schemer, he does what his honor demands he do and lets the chips fall where they may. That is why they are so good in battle but so poor at politics. Starks do horribly at Kings Landing because they assume other people are like them and are not constantly scheming. This is untrue. They know perfectly well that other people are not like them and they know perfectly well that there are people who are constantly scheming against them. They refuse to stoop to that level. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/176 "2013-05-02T15:25:07Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Not that i remember, he was a prisoner going to the wall then he joined Tywins forces at harrenhal then disappeared to parts unknown. Yeah, but I thought he kind of sneaks onto Tywin’s forces. Arya said something like “You’re the one they’re looking for. You’re part of the brotherhood.” ---
**Author:** ![Shooby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Shooby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shooby)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/177 "2013-05-02T16:09:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This is untrue. They know perfectly well that other people are not like them and they know perfectly well that there are people who are constantly scheming against them. They refuse to stoop to that level. I also get the impression that in the North, such directness is highly valued and is probably one of the prime reasons why the Starks maintain the allegiance of their bannermen. Ned Stark’s honor seems legendary, with everyone from King Robert to Lord Karstark to the Kingslayer recognizing it (though not all of them liking it). Robb grew up seeing this crazy respect for his dad’s reputation and will always have that to live up to, and this clearly shapes all of his actions. That makes the Starks perfect Wardens of the North and really awful at any of the Southern politicking. Robert was truly an idiot for bringing Ned to King’s Landing, as he got both himself AND Ned killed because of it (anyone else at Hand would probably not have continued Jon Arryn’s research, the incest babies would not have been outed, and Ned wouldn’t have had to force Cersei’s hand in killing Robert, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/178 "2013-05-02T16:46:18Z")
Robert died in a hunting accident, helped along because he was overly drunk. The most credit we could give to anyone else for his death is to say that they instructed the wine squire dude to have plenty of wine on-hand and give Robert all he wanted. It’s overstating it to say that anyone “killed Robert.” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/179 "2013-05-02T16:56:35Z")
The “wine squire dude” was Lancel Lannister. Who, soon after Robert’s death, became Cersei’s lover; he was already her cousin. ([From the HBO site](http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/season3/#!/guide/houses/lannister/lancel-lannister/).) ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979/180 "2013-05-02T17:38:38Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Robert died in a hunting accident, helped along because he was overly drunk. The most credit we could give to anyone else for his death is to say that they instructed the wine squire dude to have plenty of wine on-hand and give Robert all he wanted. > > It’s overstating it to say that anyone “killed Robert.” It’s pretty heavily implied that Cersei killed Robert. I don’t think they flat-out said it, but it was certainly hinted at. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-05-kissed-by-fire-4-28-13-no-spoilers/656979.md?page=10)