# Game of Thrones 3.07 "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" 5/12/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162 "2013-05-12T17:12:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/241 "2013-05-15T01:14:09Z")
I don’t really think Tywin would give much of a shit about a prostitute, he might be worried about Joffrey turning into Aerys but the fate of Ros probably wouldn’t register with him at all. Tyrion might care since they were vaguely connected, but what can he do? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/242 "2013-05-15T01:20:59Z")
Littlefinger probably cleaned it up so Tywin would never find out (unless Littlefinger wanted him too). It gives him more to hold over Joffrey, who’s likely to be a lot more powerful for a lot longer than Tywin. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/243 "2013-05-15T01:40:40Z")
Late to the thread, so maybe this has been asked and answered: Where the heck is Jon’s group headed? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/244 "2013-05-15T01:44:51Z")
Castle Black. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/245 "2013-05-15T01:58:09Z")
That bear scene was amazing. I couldn’t believe how human-like its movements were. > [@AK84](#): > > YAs for the Robb storyline, please less man-ass and more Chaplin-ass. Much more Chaplin-ass. You’re being selfish. We get plenty of female nudity on the show. Let those who want male nudity get their share. > [@Sampiro](#): > > One of my favorite things about GoT is Robert’s bloated playboy incompetence. So many myths and epics end with the handsome young rebel winning the crown and the lady, this one picks up a decade+ later. It would be kind of like following up STAR WARS where Leia and Han have become Eleanor and Henry from _The Lion in Winter_ (“Do you ever wonder if I slept with Luke?”). Oh, that’s brilliant. I like that analysis. One of the things that really gets me worked up is how self-defeating Robert Baratheon was, with his bull-headed stubbornness. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > OK, what Dany’s brother said was obviously outrageous but he was nuts about getting his throne back. But the rest of it, the idea of marrying off your sister or your daughter to someone for strategic or military gain, sounds like what happened throughout Europe for centuries. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > My point is that this sort of thing is normal and natural for aristocracy in Westoros. Now Dany may have felt her brother had treated her badly and used her, but there’s nothing to make her identify with slaves because of it … it’s normal noble behavior. Yes, it’s routine in Westeros. I think that’s the point. Daenerys, Cersei, Sansa, and perhaps others have all been shown chafing under this kind of oppression. None of them likes it and Daenerys is taking the opportunity to do something about it. Cersei rebelled against it in her own way. > [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](#): > > That’s what I like best about GOT. Moral questions are central. Are we defined by our past acts? What happens when we regret our decisions, and change, and make new ones? Arguably, Theon hasn’t done anywhere near as much ‘evil’ as Jaime has, yet we find ourselves sympathising with Jaime more. Is it just because the man has a winning personality? Both Theon and Jaime have now lost a ‘part’ of them that was important to them. I find the parallels between the two characters very interesting. Yes, I love this aspect of the story. As an aside, I’m much more sympathetic towards Theon than a lot of people in this discussions. He really is getting the short end of the stick, compared to how thoroughly horrible many other characters are. > [@LawMonkey](#): > > it’s fairly clear that the most legitimate claimant based on bloodlines is either Stannis or Blacksmith Bastard Boy if we’re counting from the Baratheons Only “trueborn” children have claim. Bastards have no legitimate claim as heirs of any kind. Jon Snow didn’t even have the right to be raised in his father’s house, and Catelyn resented his presence. This was clear in the very early episodes of Season 1. > [@puddleglum](#): > > Each house seems very proud of what their sigil represents and any member of the house of Bolton would not be put off by torture at all. It’s a chilling thought that there might be an entire city of psychopathic torturers. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Tomnen, last seen almost getting poisoned by Cersei during the battle of the Blackwater. Almost getting poisoned? I must be forgetting something. > [@Sampiro](#): > > They’re all Jaime:Cersei productions. Robert’s only child by Cersei died in infancy. Or so Cersei told Catelyn. I wonder if any bit of that story was true or whether it was entirely made up. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/246 "2013-05-15T02:00:13Z")
Wasn’t Cersei planning a murder/suicide in case Stannis’s forces did succeed in taking King’s Landing? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/247 "2013-05-15T02:09:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That bear scene was amazing. I couldn’t believe how human-like its movements were. Not sure what this means, that was a real bear. And Tomnen was sitting with Cersei on the iron throne at the end of the battle, she was about to feed him poison when Tywin strode in. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/248 "2013-05-15T02:13:08Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I can’t remember if this was answered last week but- > Ygritte just wanted over the wall but as pointed out last week–Wildlings get past the wall all the time.. why was scaling it so important? > [@Kobal2](#): > > Since only a handful of fortresses out of a dozen are still manned, I expect some portions of the wall have straight up crumbled and/or have been tunnelled under. If there were gaps or tunnels, I’m positive someone would have said so by now. Because that would render the Night Watch entirely superfluous. As it is, people think that they’re really only there to fight Wildlings, grumpkins, and snarks. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/249 "2013-05-15T02:14:37Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Not sure what this means, that was a real bear. It means I have never seen a bear fighting before and I perceived its movement as being very human-like. If it had been a man in a bear suit fighting like that, I would have dismissed it as ridiculously unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/250 "2013-05-15T02:28:19Z")
What is much more unrealistic is you see Brienne get slashed by the bear at least three times in blows that should have teared her flesh off and she has the same three small scratches on her neck at the end that she already had at the start of the fight. The break in continuity really threw me. I’m not sure why they didn’t just add a lot more fake blood at the end of the fight. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/251 "2013-05-15T04:34:35Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I don’t really think Tywin would give much of a shit about a prostitute, he might be worried about Joffrey turning into Aerys but the fate of Ros probably wouldn’t register with him at all. Tyrion might care since they were vaguely connected, but what can he do? Actually, after Ros kept quiet about the fact that she was NOT in fact Tyrion’s girl after Cersei captured her and, I believe, had her beaten up a bit, Tyrion told her that he was in her debt, or something to that effect. And Lannisters always pay their debts. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/252 "2013-05-15T05:54:56Z")
I don’t think “You Know Nothing” Jon Snow actually _has_ a plan other than to continue shagging Ygritte. Looks to me like he’s winging it and hoping it all turns out OK in the end. He _can’t_ change sides back to the Night’s Watch because being a Crow requires celibacy. Crows don’t have girlfriends. Jon Snow _does_ know that. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/253 "2013-05-15T05:55:34Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Got it. He may be correct, but not for any particularly good reason. Moreover, I didn’t have the impression that Tywin actually doesn’t think Dany is a threat, rather, I percieved some spin in the way he was talking about it, such that he was trying to avoid giving Joffrey the chance to do something foolish. In other words, I thought he was rhetorically downplaying the threat to keep Joffrey from trying to deal with the threat, because he basically doesn’t expect Joffrey to be able to deal with the threat effectively. The way I see it, Tywin probably sees Dany as a \*possible \*threat in the future, but with so many definite and immediate threats, he doesn’t want to dedicate any resources to bothering with it. There’s also the consideration that if she does indeed have powerful dragons and a powerful army backing her, there’s not a whole heck of a lot he can do now but wait for her to come to Westeros and make her play. > [@Shakester](#): > > My theory about why “recent” dragons were so small and unimpressive compared to the huge dragons of Aegon I Targaryen and his sister-wives is that over the years the Targaryens lost the knack of dragon husbandry. > > It seems pretty clear to me that in the GoT universe, dragons and Targaryens have a kind of symbiotic relationship. If the Targaryens are weak and decadent, so are the dragons. So, over the 300 years since Aegon the first’s reign, dragons got smaller and weaker as Targaryen vitality waned. > > Dany, it seems to me, is a throwback. People here seem to be thinking that the resurrection of dragons is the trigger that enabled magic to flourish again - that’s possible, but it seems to me that the trigger that allowed dragons to flourish again is Dany. She’s the key. She is what enabled the dragons to return. ISTM that it’s likely that what waned was the \*male \*Targaryens’ vitality, not that of the females. Dany was just the first female Targaryen put into the position where she could cast the now fickle masculine bloodline aside and assert the feminine side of the bloodline’s still-thriving power. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Losing his hand goes some in the credit column for Jaime’s penance. > > Other than Tyrion (who hasn’t killed anybody except in battle or in retribution for needing killing and whose only sexual deviance involves run-of-the-mill patronizing whores), is there a living character who’s morally admirable? Although I’m happy to see I wasn’t the only one starting to have their sneaking suspicions about how \*too \*perfect Talisa is for Robb, from what we currently know, she is pretty clearly (at least tied for) the most morally admirable character. (And I wouldn’t mind \*orally \*admiring her, either! ;)) > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > That does bring up… what the hell is Snow’s plan at this point? At this point it has to basically be- run away with Ygritte and live anonymously or somehome try to broker peace between the Wildlings and the Northmen. My bet would be on the latter. It would seem necessary that \*someone \*unify the Wildings and Northmen if any of them are going to have any chance against the White Walkers. Who else, but Jon “Don’t” Snow, is in the position to even attempt that? Whether that means he somehow brokers the peace, or that he ends up being the de facto King beyond the wall that has the power to \*make \*the peace, I won’t hazard to guess. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/254 "2013-05-15T06:07:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If there were gaps or tunnels, I’m positive someone would have said so by now. Because that would render the Night Watch entirely superfluous. As it is, people think that they’re really only there to fight Wildlings, grumpkins, and snarks. Here’s my confusion-- Did Osha and Hodor CLIMB the wall then? I assumed they had found a hole basically and that there were numerous but small holes located sparingly across 300 miles. These small holes are not an efficient way to get an army through. I assumed that’s why the Nightswatch patrols. And it definitely seems like Jon’s group is a scouting party and not an invasion force (there’s maybe 12 of them), so again WHY the climb? So if Osha and Hodor climbed then okay, fine. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/255 "2013-05-15T07:00:17Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Here’s my confusion-- Did Osha and Hodor CLIMB the wall then? I assumed they had found a hole basically and that there were numerous but small holes located sparingly across 300 miles. These small holes are not an efficient way to get an army through. I assumed that’s why the Nightswatch patrols. Osha went \*around \*the wall, which would be a long, time-consuming, and probably impractical trip for a whole army, and by the time they made it, they’d probably get noticed. AFAIK, Hodor was never a Wildling, he’s always been a resident of Winterfell. > [@](#): > > And it definitely seems like Jon’s group is a scouting party and not an invasion force (there’s maybe 12 of them), so again WHY the climb? So if Osha and Hodor climbed then okay, fine. Someone had to climb so that they could then let the rest of the army in by lowering the “elevators” and/or opening the gates - whatever it is that’s the normal means of entry/exit for the Nightswatch when that post is manned. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/256 "2013-05-15T07:31:27Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Osha went \*around \*the wall, which would be a long, time-consuming, and probably impractical trip for a whole army, and by the time they made it, they’d probably get noticed. I don’t recall that being stated on the show. Which episode was that in? As far as I can see from the map in the title sequence, the Wall reaches from coast to coast. And if it doesn’t, then bypassing it would be easy, if (as you say) time-consuming. We’ve seen quite a few people bypass the Night’s Watch and make it through the wall, not least being the deserter we saw at the start of episode one. Wildlings in small numbers clearly _do_ make it through the walls. As for why Jon Snow’s party scaled the walls, I can fanwank a few possible reasons, and it probably doesn’t matter anyway. They just did. [Rule of Cool](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/257 "2013-05-15T08:15:11Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > We’ve seen quite a few people bypass the Night’s Watch and make it through the wall, not least being the deserter we saw at the start of episode one. It’s not clear when he deserted. He may have returned to Castleblack, and decided to desert from there. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/258 "2013-05-15T08:18:07Z")
Jon Snow talked about the wildlings always losing. This time the North is at war with the South, the armies are distracted, the nights watch is super weak and leaderless, and if Robb dies/gets captured there will be no leadership to lead those Northern armies to battle the wildlings…One more reason to think Robb is headed for some kind of downfall. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/259 "2013-05-15T10:22:39Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > …He _can’t_ change sides back to the Night’s Watch because being a Crow requires celibacy. Crows don’t have girlfriends. Jon Snow _does_ know that. Celibacy and chastity aren’t the same think, though the Night’s Watch probably frowns on it’s members taking regular concubines. > [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Wasn’t Cersei planning a murder/suicide in case Stannis’s forces did succeed in taking King’s Landing? Yep; she was sitting on the Iron Throne with Tommen holding a vial of poison when Tywin burst in. Prior to that she’d spent the entire night getting drunker & drunker while the ladies of the court cowered in fear around her. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/260 "2013-05-15T10:49:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It’s not clear when he deserted. He may have returned to Castleblack, and decided to desert from there. He confesses about not having warned anybody about the White Walkers. He didn’t go back to Castle Black. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162.md?page=14)