# Game of Thrones 3.07 "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" 5/12/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162 "2013-05-12T17:12:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/121 "2013-05-13T22:40:17Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > I thought that the Seven _were_ the old gods, such as Mel was burning in a previous season? And this episode, when Arya was asked which god she followed, she said ‘Death’. There has been plenty of mention of them all on the show, I believe. Death is the only god, according to Arya’s awesome foreign sword instructor. The Red God/Lord of Light are also apparently foreign, and are one and the same, according to Mel this episode. The Seven are the “new” Gods worshipped in the South, by people like the Tullys and Lannisters. The Old Gods are the one who involve tree faces, and are worshipped in the North by the Starks and kin. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/122 "2013-05-13T22:47:23Z")
Arya’s and Syrio’s death god is metaphorical, not an actual god to be worshipped. Or at least that seems clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/123 "2013-05-13T22:50:22Z")
The knife looked special, like [one of these castration knives](http://tbonescustomcreations.com/custom-castration-knives/). There was sort of a hook on it, a curve to the blade. I don’t think they’d bother to get two big guys to hold him down if they were just playing with him. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/124 "2013-05-13T22:55:21Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > The knife looked special, like [one of these castration knives](http://tbonescustomcreations.com/custom-castration-knives/). There was sort of a hook on it, a curve to the blade. > > I don’t think they’d bother to get two big guys to hold him down if they were just playing with him. I assumed castration not out-right de-dicking. ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/125 "2013-05-13T22:57:41Z")
“With a hooked blade he sliced me, root and stem.” ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/126 "2013-05-13T23:03:00Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I assumed castration not out-right de-dicking. Agreed. My understanding is that removal of the penis is a much more serious procedure, with a greater likelihood of complications, than “mere” castration. While I don’t expect Theon’s captor is terribly concerned with Theon’s welfare long term, he’d probably hate to have his “fun” cut short by having him die of infection/sepsis in a week. On the other hand, it’d be a SERIOUS dick (heh) move to take Theon’s cock and leave his balls. My god, the frustration! I really hope they give us some story to go with the torture porn soon. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/127 "2013-05-13T23:07:17Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > Hrm. Has me thinking. Is he poking at Joffrey to make him act like a better king, or poking in order to encourage Joffrey to do something stupid…something stupid enough that he’ll never be taken seriously, leaving Tywin in effective control of the kingdom for much longer than he might be once Joffrey marries? Either works fine. Tywin plays the long game. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/128 "2013-05-13T23:27:58Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Death is the only god, according to Arya’s awesome foreign sword instructor. The dualist reformed version of their religion acknowledges both death and cake. A pity Varys can’t teleport himself and Thoros the Red to where newly cockless Theon is or they might be able to work something out. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/129 "2013-05-14T00:23:37Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I assumed castration not out-right de-dicking. > [@LawMonkey](#): > > Agreed. Also agreed, but no mention was made of castration. The torturer was specifically talking about removing Theon’s favorite part. I think the disconnect for me is that I base my knowledge of the “normal” people on Ros. To me, the Ros character was meant to convey to the viewer what the sensibilities of the common people are. The hot naked chicks were likely whores, so even closer to Ros than your average Joe. Ros balked at spanking someone too hard. Granted it was likely a friend of hers, but geez, I can’t see Ros coquettishly giggling when presented with a torture victim’s imminent mutilation. Let’s say instead of being tied to the bedpost and murdered, Ros was led to Joffrey’s chambers and found him being beaten by a couple of soldiers and then held down and had his favorite part ripped off. Ros had reason to dislike or even hate Joffrey, but I still see her reaction to such a hypothetical as grim-faced “well, at least he deserves it” at best, but more likely as going pale and nauseated in revulsion. I suppose the women could have believed that Theon was a mortal enemy or a despicable creature akin to our modern day viewing of a serial pedophile-murderer, and combined with the brutal nature of their times they were completely unfazed by the impending brutality. But still, it was a little too mustache-twirling cartoonish evil for me. It’s worth mentioning that I consider this a different situation than a public execution, where mob mentality can get the adrenaline flowing and inure individuals to the harsh reality of what is taking place. This was an intimate setting; they were up close and personal with no bloodthirsty crowd to wash away any compassion. I realize that I’m way overthinking this. Their reaction just seemed so over-the-top implausible that I was wondering if maybe the girls weren’t real, but instead fevered figments of Theon’s imagination. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/130 "2013-05-14T00:30:50Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I realize that I’m way overthinking this. Their reaction just seemed so over-the-top implausible that I was wondering if maybe the girls weren’t real, but instead fevered figments of Theon’s imagination. It’s also very plausible that the difference is that Ros grew up and learned about the world in the outskirts of Winterfell where, even as a whore, one imagines that some amount of the ethics and worldview of the Starks trickled down to her, whereas these two whores, as far as we know, grew up in the land of evil torturing freaks. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/131 "2013-05-14T00:33:00Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > I thought that the Seven _were_ the old gods, such as Mel was burning in a previous season? And this episode, when Arya was asked which god she followed, she said ‘Death’. There has been plenty of mention of them all on the show, I believe. Nope. The Old Gods aren’t named like The Seven. The Old Gods are the reason for the Gods’ Wood you saw in seasons one and two in Winterfell. And the other tree with a face where John Snow and Piggy took their Night’s watch vows. Disclaimer: all from the show. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/132 "2013-05-14T00:51:50Z")
We see Bran praying to one and Osha explains that the wind is the gods talking to him. The Wildlings worship the old gods too. They and the Stark are descendants of the First Men. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/133 "2013-05-14T02:02:40Z")
If it weren’t for the fact his character doesn’t stand I think it’d be evident that the actor playing Bran has really grown since the series started. I wonder if that’s why they show so little of Rickon as well. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/134 "2013-05-14T02:15:04Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Apparently whatever dwarfed the ones born in King’s Landing (those Tywin described as having heads the size of apples) was unique to King’s Landing, since Dany’s seem to be growing quickly and are already bigger than appleheads. > > Danarys hatching these in Drogo’s funeral pyre probably made some difference. Evidently they didn’t hatch or gestate or (whatever) right in Westeros. Plus they didn’t have a mommy like Danaerys. Am I the only one who thinks the coming Winter has a lot to do with the strength of magic/dragons? I haven’t seen anyone else mention it but it is the first thing that occurs to me. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/135 "2013-05-14T02:49:42Z")
> [@sohvan](#): > > It’s interesting that Tywin is getting information that Dany’s dragons are harmless. News travels slowly in the medieval world though, so it may be his latest reports are from when they were still babies. I got the impression from something he said that these were "expert projections ", not actual information. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/136 "2013-05-14T03:12:42Z")
In the first series, Cat was making a wreath while tending to the unconscious Bran; it was rather like a dream catcher, with images of The Seven. Sansa’s “governess” (whose head ended up on display at Kings Landing) was a “septa”–like a nun in the faith of The Seven. We saw Ned in the grove sacred to the Old Ones; it seems to be a religion without clergy or even much written theology. Cat & Ned had a “mixed” marriage. This season we saw Joffrey giving Margaery a tour of a big “church”–where Targaryan rulers were buried. The faith of The Seven is the established church of Westeros but seems fairly tolerant. Then there are worshippers of the fire god (from Essos)–some of whom (like Stannis’s girlfriend/spiritual advisor) seem a bit overzealous. And the Iron Islanders worship a Drowned God–but he’s not exactly making converts outside those miserable, rainswept islands… HBO’s site has info on the faiths & their history–and it’s aimed at viewers. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/137 "2013-05-14T03:21:10Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > My prefered version so far is[this one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VMSYIXCCY)which has been on youtube since before it was heard in the show. Obviously, you don’t want to read the comments and such if you don’t want to be spoiled. IMHO, this version is the only perfect one: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/zJ0rzsNfmIc/maxresdefault.jpg "Irish Moutarde - The Bear And The Maiden Fair") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ0rzsNfmIc) Anyone catch the music over Jaime and Brienne’s exit at the end? A nice touch… ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/138 "2013-05-14T03:33:25Z")
My theory about why “recent” dragons were so small and unimpressive compared to the huge dragons of Aegon I Targaryen and his sister-wives is that over the years the Targaryens lost the knack of dragon husbandry. It seems pretty clear to me that in the GoT universe, dragons and Targaryens have a kind of symbiotic relationship. If the Targaryens are weak and decadent, so are the dragons. So, over the 300 years since Aegon the first’s reign, dragons got smaller and weaker as Targaryen vitality waned. Dany, it seems to me, is a throwback. People here seem to be thinking that the resurrection of dragons is the trigger that enabled magic to flourish again - that’s possible, but it seems to me that the trigger that allowed dragons to flourish again is Dany. She’s the key. She is what enabled the dragons to return. Standard disclaimer: I have not read the books, I do not know any spoilers, I am speculating based on what I’ve seen from the TV show. ETA: I stated this theory last season, too, and I’ve seen nothing to make me think I’m wrong about it. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/139 "2013-05-14T04:48:29Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I realize that I’m way overthinking this. Their reaction just seemed so over-the-top implausible that I was wondering if maybe the girls weren’t real, but instead fevered figments of Theon’s imagination. That was my guess earlier in this thread (see below). The girls’ behavior just seemed a little too fantastic to be real. > [@Tangent](#): > > Could all this stuff be in Theon’s head? Like a fever dream or maybe he’s been in a coma this whole time since being whacked on the head at Winterfell. Maybe he’s actually only being tortured in his subconscious by his own guilt and insecurities. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162/140 "2013-05-14T05:03:05Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > it seems to me that the trigger that allowed dragons to flourish again is Dany. She’s the key. She is what enabled the dragons to return. Oh absolutely. She’s the Mother of Dragons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-07-the-bear-and-the-maiden-fair-5-12-13-no-book-spoilers/658162.md?page=8)