# Game of Thrones 3.08 "Second Sons" 5/19/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757 "2013-05-19T20:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/221 "2013-05-28T18:14:50Z")
All of you, knock it off. **AK84** , you’ve made your displeasure with this way of handling the discussion exquisitely clear. However, you clearly understand the rules, so just abide by them without additional commentary. If you’re unable to refrain, take any snark you can’t control to the Pit. Next time I have to come into one of these threads to tell you this, I’m going to start giving you warnings for ignoring moderator instructions. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/222 "2013-05-28T19:49:04Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > That was Season 2 episode 4. Tyrion sent him whores after that and he’s clearly stepped up his confidence and aggressiveness since then. Don’t think he’s still a virgin, virgins don’t threaten rape and impregnation in general. That’s exactly the time frame that was being speculated about… Joffrey also didn’t have sex with the whores that Tyrion sent him and he had already threatened to rape Sansa beforehand (season 1). ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/223 "2013-05-28T21:04:33Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Its also no spoiler that you are taking a fantasy world _waaay too seriously_ especially as nothing is revealed at all. :rolleyes: Clearly you don’t get it. By saying “Oooo there’s something I am struggling not to reveal about that topic” you ARE in fact revealing things. Now knock it off. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/224 "2013-05-28T21:55:03Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Joffrey also didn’t have sex with the whores that Tyrion sent him and he had already threatened to rape Sansa beforehand (season 1). Until there’s a poll, my vote is he’s still a virgin. I think he’s too insecure in his masculinity to risk having sex. He’s all talk, and it’s the wrong kind of talk (rape and violence), because he hasn’t had an appropriate role model. Although I suppose if he tried and it didn’t go well, he could always kill the poor woman. On the other hand, there was speculation either here or in Sepinwall’s review that the reason he tortured the whore Tyrion gave him in S2 was because he was angry with Tyrion and resented the “gift”. Or maybe it was explicit in the show; I don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/225 "2013-05-28T23:19:34Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > …Although I suppose if he tried and it didn’t go well, he could always kill the poor woman… He’s in for a world of shit if he does that to Margaery though. He cannot afford to piss off House Tyrell, and fortunately for Margaery Tywin knows this. His Kingsguard might be perfectly willing to help him kill random whores, or even hold Sansa down, but they’re not going to stand by while he murders Margaery. I doubt Tywin would even let him rape Sansa, at least not until be became clear that Tyrion wasn’t doing his duty. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/226 "2013-05-28T23:39:12Z")
Of course he wouldn’t harm Margaery – I didn’t mean to imply that he would. If he doesn’t perform on their wedding night, she’ll be just as understanding as she was with Renly. She’ll smooth it over and he’ll brag about his prowess the next morning. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/227 "2013-05-28T23:55:39Z")
Then Tywin can get Tyrion to fuck Margaery to get the proof of consummation! ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/228 "2013-05-29T00:16:54Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > He’s in for a world of shit if he does that to Margaery though. He cannot afford to piss off House Tyrell, and fortunately for Margaery Tywin knows this. His Kingsguard might be perfectly willing to help him kill random whores, or even hold Sansa down, but they’re not going to stand by while he murders Margaery. I doubt Tywin would even let him rape Sansa, at least not until be became clear that Tyrion wasn’t doing his duty. I’m still waiting for Tywin to show any sign of even trying to control Joffrey. Right now he seems more like a gasbag. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/229 "2013-05-29T00:47:25Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I’m still waiting for Tywin to show any sign of even trying to control Joffrey. Right now he seems more like a gasbag. The throne room scene was supposed to be a “hint, hint, nudge, nudge, be a fuckhead no more !”, IMO. Particularly the “You are being counselled RIGHT NOW” bit - plenty of unspoken menacing undertones there, or so I thought. Joffrey seemed bright (or pussy) enough to take the hint, too. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/230 "2013-05-29T00:57:31Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > The throne room scene was supposed to be a “hint, hint, nudge, nudge, be a fuckhead no more !”, IMO. Particularly the “You are being counselled RIGHT NOW” bit - plenty of unspoken menacing undertones there, or so I thought. Joffrey seemed bright (or pussy) enough to take the hint, too. Fair enough, but if that’s the extent of Tywin’s coaching, young Joffrey is a freaking train wreck waiting to happen. Which of course is very fun for us viewers. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/231 "2013-05-29T01:16:43Z")
I don’t think Tywin cares much about Joffrey plugging a few whores full of crossbow bolts, what he wants to control is the things like plunging the realm into a multi sided war on a whim. Basically as long as Joffrey is not trying to do any actual “ruling” Tywin is not going to do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/232 "2013-05-29T02:41:30Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Until there’s a poll, my vote is he’s still a virgin. I think he’s too insecure in his masculinity to risk having sex. He’s all talk, and it’s the wrong kind of talk (rape and violence), because he hasn’t had an appropriate role model… Fair point. Consider: Dad - clearly loathed Mom; did little to raise you; consorted with whores. Uncle Jaime - in the Kingsguard and thus supposed to be celibate; widely rumored to be sleeping with Mom. Uncle Tyrion - slaps you around when he gets the chance; consorts with whores. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/233 "2013-05-29T03:09:47Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Dad - clearly loathed Mom; I’m drawing a blank on this… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/234 "2013-05-29T03:16:56Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I’m drawing a blank on this… Robert Baratheon clearly loathed Cersei. That’s pretty obvious. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/235 "2013-05-29T04:52:03Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I’m still waiting for Tywin to show any sign of even trying to control Joffrey. Right now he seems more like a gasbag. Well he did stop Joffrey from having Tyrion executed on his wedding after he drunkenly threatened to castrate him (technically Tyrion committed treason). They were in public and he was very good at making it look like he was advising Joffrey, but I don’t think there’s much doubt who’s orders the guards would obey if Joffrey didn’t back down. > [@DigitalC](#): > > I don’t think Tywin cares much about Joffrey plugging a few whores full of crossbow bolts, what he wants to control is the things like plunging the realm into a multi sided war on a whim. Basically as long as Joffrey is not trying to do any actual “ruling” Tywin is not going to do anything. Agreed. Since Ned all the people Joffrey’s tortured and/or killed have been lowborn folks of no influence or importance; they simply don’t matter. What’s really funny is Joffrey’s complete lack of self-awareness. He has no understanding of statecraft genuinely thinks he do whatever he wants simply because he’s king and his subjects will obey him. At the same time the only reason he’s king is because his father overthrew the previous king, Aerys II (the Westerosi analogue of Caligula). Even Tywin must occasionally think “Gee, his little brother would be much easier to control”. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/236 "2013-05-29T06:58:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Robert Baratheon clearly loathed Cersei. That’s pretty obvious. Ehhh… Really? It seemed just a typical loveless marriage. What makes you think he loathed her? ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/237 "2013-05-29T09:39:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Robert Baratheon clearly loathed Cersei. That’s pretty obvious. lol…I admit I was thinking about Jaime, I forgot Joffrey doesn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/238 "2013-05-29T11:55:28Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Ehhh… Really? > > It seemed just a typical loveless marriage. What makes you think he loathed her? “What can the ghost of Lysa Arryn do to us that we haven’t done to each other a hundred times over ?” It was more than just a sad marriage, they were actively trying to hurt each other, or at least each other’s feelings, the whole time. Hence Robert’s very open, very public womanising for example : being the King, he could have discreetly dipped his wick as much as he wanted. But he did it almost in front of the whole court (not to mention Jaime) as an extra fuck you to his wife. Hence also Cersei’s insisting that he ordered Lady be put down after she bit Joffrey : she knew it would put Robert in a difficult position with his best friend, and you can tell she was extra happy with herself about it. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/239 "2013-05-29T12:10:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > “What can the ghost of Lysa Arryn do to us that we haven’t done to each other a hundred times over ?” Lyanna Stark, Lysa Arryn is still alive and crazy in the Eyrie. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/240 "2013-05-29T13:13:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Hence also Cersei’s insisting that he ordered Lady be put down after she bit Joffrey : she knew it would put Robert in a difficult position with his best friend, and you can tell she was extra happy with herself about it. It was worse than that. It was Nymeria that had bitten Joffrey. Cersei gleefully had Lady killed for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757.md?page=13)